World: r3wp

Yes, general sync framework, even for something better than IOS is. 
I am near writing proposal for who would be willing to develop file-exchange 
framework, but supporting certificates, e-signatures. Maybe I could 
get something like 1000 EUR for that, but I know that is hardly enough 
for you "west" folks :-(

The "low price" of solution would be to actually get "license for 
the code", which would be later released to be as free to rebol community.

The only sync projects I know about was DocKimbel's Rsync port attempt 
(it was not finished, as it was said as being too slow in rebol) 
and Graham's Coyote?

Robert: What do you understand under a sync interface. Easiest way 
and most compatible way would probably be to support syncML, as at 
least symbian supports it, but this would mean that IOS has to become 
a syncML server, that's not so easy - I think.

I dunno what is Outlook syncing based upon ....

I think they have their own protocol - at least in regard to exchange.

but we are talking about syncing mobile users with Outlook, right? 
So the question is, what protocols are used on smart devices ...

symbian for instance will support from v9.0 on (at least the announced 
this) exchange protocol for exactly that reason

and they use syncML - I just don't use outlook or anything common 
so I never could test it (SE P900)

It is really a BIG problem. I work close to management and some of 
them change their devices every few months ;-) - you know those geeks 
:-), and we have to install plenty of sw, set-up devices in various 
modes, for various operators, cooperating with notebooks, etc. A 
real pain. Symbian are pigs. Gettrin new P910  one year ago connected 
via BlueTooth was real pain. Companies release beta level quality 
sw ...

Michael, yes something like SyncML.

Petr, keep it simple. I just want to sync an address block to the 
mobil so that it's added to the contact database. That's it.

I wonder, why there is not any standard, e.g. for exporting cell-phone 
content, or to import it later, between all producers ...

I have friends who run large cell phone shop here and they do both 
- export cell phone contacts, as well as backup all phone info, becase 
there are sometimes problems with new sw, which refuses to import 
setttings backed-up by older sw version and similar mess, and I talk 
about Nokias only ...

so what do they use? SyncML?

isn't there ?: what about vcards, vblabla and so on and again syncML 
even though thats XMLish and not REBOLish :-)

don't know, I didn't want to say there is something easy, but there 
is something, but last time I looked into syncML for syncing my phone 
with my own software it seamed quite complicated (at least under 
Symbian), but I didn't check it out too carefully (I mean only from 
the Symbian C++ docs wasn't so easy to get the overall picture)

I think the problem with syncML is also that it got /is (I didn't 
know this before) some sync-everything protocol, which is now huge 
and probably complicated (wasn't just my opinion)

So, at least is it possible to send some SyncML stuff to the phone 
from Rebol and get back some answer?

Maybe I shouldn't have talked so much. :-) That's at least what I 
was hoping for, but as far as I understood the Symbian docs, you 
need a complete syncML server the phone connects to. I might be wrong 
as for instance I don't know how Outlook right now syncs with the 
Symbian phones. Maybe I should look into it once more. I'm trying 
to develop some small app for my phone, but I didn't reach the point 
yet to sync the stuff with a desktop application (that's where I 
originally thought syncML might be handy).

The soft you get with your phone to sync things is a complete syncML 
server? I know there are open-source libs for SyncML.

So, how to access the phone at all? I have a SE P800 and this USB 
cradel thing. How can I send it something from Rebol?

That's the big question. I didn't get that far yet, as I was fighting 
with Symbian C++ on the phone first - sorry. But I try to find something 
in the docs or on the web now.

Robert - my experience is only that e.g. for Nokia, you need their 
Suite. Symbian communicates via mrouter.exe, which you can download 
separately. Have you ever tried to get various phones connected via 
bluetooth? A nightmare. Bluetooth "simulates" serial connection. 
Symbians are used to initiate connection themselves. So they will 
disconnect PC and try to connect back. But they communicate with 
mroute.exe, which serves as gateway or so ...

I stoped looking for it. :-( If somebody finds something I would 
be interested. 

Besides that: I think it's not so easy to access the phone directly, 
e.g. I don't know whether there is some device what could be accessed 
when the phone is in the cradle or connected via bluetooth or infrared. 
Could be that it's just a Windows Explorer thing that it looks like 
a normal device and that this is hardcoded (it uses of course the 
com port somewhere in the background) so that even copying something 
to/from the phone is non-trivial. At least in this case one could 
write a small application which exports (in this case) the block 
of addresses, writes them to a file and the file could be read by 
Rebol.

I will shortly post name of sw for backing up some of phones ...

Pekr: So you answered it. :-)

those companies are pigs, sorry. Why to make things easy? Look at 
Olympus digicams - although I am Canon brand follower, once you connect 
olympus, you have access to normal filesystem/dir structure. The 
same goes for some of cell phones, but not everything can be seen 
this way, mostly only media stuff - photos, sounds, etc.

You have access to the filesystem in the SE PXXX phones too, but 
it seams no access via the OS in general, just via selected applications 
as the Explorer (counterproofs welcome :-). To be more exact in this 
case not the full filesystem, but the "filestructure" supposed to 
be seen for the user, according to the UIQ concept of categories 
and stuff.

Try to look at MobilEdit at http://www.mobiledit.com

heh, it looks being Czech software. Those cz guys, are sometimes 
good, right Cyphre? :-)

Robert - look at that - looks good, it adds new things via plug-ins. 
And as those are czechs, maybe we could ask them, if kind of "command-line" 
utility would be possible at some good price :-)

they provide even SDK

they have message board, developers forum, per-phone forum etc.

Symbian OS not supported yet. And it wouldn't exactly be a "Rebol" 
solution, for the task Robert envisioned. :-( But interesting nevertheless.

but those guys could know how to actually do it :-) The question 
is, if they would be willing to share experience ...

You might be right, but the fact that they're still working on a 
Symbian-version tells, that at least in this case it's not so simple 
or they want to offer all the data like in the other phones and it's 
much more work then. Who knows. :-)

yes, I just read some message board answers, and someone wanted to 
develop driver himself, but they told the guy that such thing is 
far from being trivial, as various phones use various techniques.

that's what I was wondering, either Symbian is complicated or just 
a lot of work, because every phonemanufacturer has anyway his proprietary 
OS for the normal/cheaper phones, so should be a lot of work too, 
but on the other side these phones are still the majority and thus 
better to earn money on them as on relatively view Symbian smartphones 
now

Good input. Petr, try to find out what it would need to code such 
an API with a scripting language. Just to get a better picture about 
the problem domain.

I have a contact that makes the UI for new mobiles. I try to get 
some information from him.

OK, I will write email tomorrow or give the folks a call. Hopefully 
they will be open-minded and kind of geeks so we will have good technology 
talk ...

Robert, I think I can make such syncing tool in J2ME for all Java 
mobile phones.

If you are interested just contact me privately.

I think the only way how to make some more compatiblem app for cell 
phone is Java as the Java VM is presented on most of current phones 
which cannot be said about Symbian and other OSes.

target the Series handphones. eg Series 60, from Nokia.


isn't that the key idea for those 'Series' handphones from Nokia. 
..so that developers can have single API to develop on and easily 
 deploy on a large enough 'market share'

and it's going to be Java...:)

Ok, I further investigate this mobil symbian stuff. It looks like 
some Linux guys have done a bit: http://multisync.sourceforge.net/news.php

http://sync4j.funambol.com/main.jsp?main=theproject

SyncML DS (data synchronization) specifies a standard way to synchronize 
data between a mobile device and a server. SyncML DM (device management) 
specifies a way to remotely manage a mobile device from a server.

So what we need first is SyncML DS.