World: r3wp

In my approach, the mapping between the data and the "view" is defined 
by a dialect. I guess, one might want to make at least part of that 
mapping part of the view; this does not change the fact that the 
template file can then be simple HTML.

Formatting

 to me does not seem a templating issue though. It's about localization 
 and customization (different users will want different formats for 
 dates, and almost everything else). So, this is a completely separate 
 axis. As Carl often says... the problem is multidimensional, reducing 
 it just to "model" and "view" is not really going to work.

(for example, when he says that "the calculation of a subtotal belogs 
to the view", i disagree that the actual code to compute the sum 
belongs to the view. the view should allow for declaratively defining 
such kind of things. page subtotals, for example, was a feature i 
intended to have in PDF Maker 2 tables - since you don't know where 
the table is going to be split at, the engine has to be able to do 
the work for you.)

has anyone here worked on a firefox plugin before?

any tips for wget tool allowing to go via form authentication? We 
need to make off-line copy of one site. The site works only from 
one PC at a time from our organisation, it seems it uses cookies 
or so ....

use the cookie-enabled http protocols on rebol.org (by Cyphre IIRC)

what for? :-) we have wget like tool for rebol?

building the wget is trivial in rebol... but you still need the http 
calls to support cookies.  though we can probably probe the headers 
for cookie returns in newer R2 versions.

Petr, I think you need to take a look into curl stuff for this.

MaxV spots an interesting product for website generation. Written 
in REBOL:
   http://synapse-ehr.com/forums/showthread.php?139-Rebol-CMS

From Dario Giacomelli
Registered on the R3 chat as Dario

wow, interesting

http://it.linkedin.com/in/ingdariogiacomelli

anyone game to test it out?

Many of the concepts are a lot like how I started the first phase 
of my CMS three years ago, but the implementation is a bit different

Is anyone here familiar with the current state of WYSIWYG web designers? 
Are there any decent current free ones? I'm only familiar with Kompozer 
(the new Nvu) and have heard good things about WebMatrix. This is 
for a person familiar with Frontpage, but I'm trying to disuade them 
from using it (for all our sakes), and don't want to encourage piracy 
of Dreamweaver or Expression Web.

I haven't used Nvu or Kompozer for years, and only use code editors 
for my web work (or don't do web front end stuff at all).

There's been a lull in KompoZer development, but it's reasonable 
now

It still has a lot of quirks, though

Are there any decent alternatives to it?

Sadly, no

Would using any modern word processor then saving as HTML be any 
worse than Frontpage? ;) I wouldn't do a complex site this way, but 
for a couple of static pages it may suffice.

Just don't use Frontpage. If you end up having to edit the pages 
later by hand, it's faster simply to build them by hand.

If Frontpage is the alternative, WebMatrix looks a lot better. However, 
it's focused on developers and complex backends. If the goal is simple 
web pages for a common user, KompoZer is probably better, and more 
in the ballpark of Frontpage

I just remembered that there's a successor to KompoZer:

http://bluegriffon.org

It seems to be usable by now, but I have no experience with it

It's HTML5/CSS3 support looks good.

If you are on OSX take a look at Rapidweaver. Really good.

Ashley didn't you have some web dialect you were doing?

Yes, I'm using it to generate web sites for clients ... but I want 
to add support for mobile devices (via jQuery Mobile) and solve the 
"one website for desktops, another for mobiles" problem (via "Responsive 
Web Design" techniques - see http://www.alistapart.com/articles/responsive-web-design

That's scary if true .. mobile browsing expected to outpace desktop 
access in 3-5 years.

Steve Jobs made a good point in an interview not long ago: "PC's 
are going to be like trucks. Less people will need them. And this 
is going to make some people uneasy."

why do you find it scary, Graham?

it means we will have to recode all our websites!

Exactly, and there's the opportunity as most people (and tools) are 
still stuck with a "mywebsite.com for desktops and mywebsite.com/m 
for mobiles" model.

I'm hoping that whatever framework I use will automatically adapt 
:)

Or that mobile browsers will just cope

designing for a small browser still requires re-designing the layout. 
 no way round that.

I'm not sure that there will be a distinction between mobile browsing 
and desktop browsing for too much longer (no longer than a decade, 
IMO). Just a few more tech advances in battery life will allow for 
practical pico projectors to be included into any mobile device. 
An alternative that increases viewable area is foldable displays 
- they exist already in prototype form - just need to be commercialized. 
HUDs and retinal displays are others. These are not sci-fi anymore. 
But if you're just talking about the next couple of years or so, 
I agree.

Between prototype and cheap commercialization, it can be decades.

I remember having seen large flat screen TV proto in the early 80's 
(plasma).
We had to wait until 2005+ to be able to buy them at low prices.

yeah the first not crappy plasma screens where 60000$  and they didn't 
come down for a long time.

It is a long time I last looked into ajax libraries.  I know I tend 
not to use mainstream stuff, but often based upon coolness of the 
technology :-) Many ppl talk jquery, even MS is adopting it for SharePoint, 
but what about e.g.:

Mootools
YUI - http://yuilibrary.com/
Dojo Toolkit - http://dojotoolkit.org/
Sencha Touch - http://www.sencha.com/
DHTMLx - http://dhtmlx.com/
Prototype - http://www.prototypejs.org/

SmartGWT (successor to GWT) - http://www.smartclient.com/smartgwt/showcase/#main
http://dojotoolkit.org/

Any experience, preference? What are YOU using?

I'm still using JQuery .. but it's a hard slog.  But I might switch 
to using Enyo if it's as good as it looks

and of course it has to be released

I'm using jQuery, becuase I'm lazy to write own stuff (which I consider 
better in most cases, because I usually need only minimal functionality 
provided by the jQuery) and want to spend as less time working on 
web as possible so I do not examine other frameworks.

AFAIK, everyone here is using JQuery, or, have written their own 
frameworks

I still also maintain another site in YUI

but checking your links, I quite like Dojo

I can imagine REBOL dialect to build code for many such a toolkits, 
but as I say.. I don't want to spend time on it at this moment.

I think dockimbel is also JQuery

user