World: r3wp

but it's quite slow. about a third of the speed of a typical VID 
application

it also takes ages to start up

and look at all that source code!

we could counter some of these demos very easily

I won't do that, but if someone has time to spare, do that and post 
them on message boards which talk about this scripting language.

Pekr, how can the JAVA-based technology compete with rebol dialecting 
? I'll bet that F3 language, if it needs more functionality, allows 
you to mix in JAVA code. Great. Just great. But can it mix it in 
as smoothly as Rebol code in VID ? I doubt it.

What is better?

view layout [at 20x20 image http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/awt/1.3/designspec/images/hips.sm.gif]
or
import f3.ui.canvas.*;
import f3.ui.*;

Canvas {
    content: Group {   
        transform: translate(20, 20)
        content: ImageView {
            transform: []

            image: Image { url: "http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/awt/1.3/designspec/images/hips.sm.gif"
            }
        }
    }
}

the second one? looks very professional with all those curly brackets 
(just kidding ;)

:)

Yes, it makes you wonder which language allows you to get work done 
more quickly. Maybe REBOL could be called "on-demand scripting"?

Well, I just said they have their own VID. In comparison to what 
would be needed to achieve the same using pure JAVA code, I would 
really call it a simplification, which might help some guys ...

You said View is starting to look old, they just use lot of nice 
gfx, that's all.

look old = others are marching in our footsteps - providing simplification 
= kind of dialect to gui creation ...

but they are not marching in our footsteps? where's the dialecting, 
the one-liners, startup times in less than a second? The end result 
might look like something made with DRAW, but it's 10-100 times less 
efficient.

hmm, the thing is - JAVA = corporate world, JAVA = now open-source, 
JAVA = true cross-platform, JAVA = for programmer - safe about getting 
eventual job. I am not here to argue with you about details :-)

I am not switching to JAVA ;-) It is just that by examples of F3 
I can see that now the UI part makes obvious sense to me, even non 
JAVA experienced programmer, not knowing its object model etc.

but is that not already a problem for us? I fail to see how we could 
attract Java programmers, if they are already using a system

I should not mention View in the equation maybe :-)

Henrik - it is vice versa - you always could tell undecided programmer 
- look how awfull code you need to write to just get "this" done. 
And now he/she can tell you - well, we have F3 now, to help us to 
create UIs in a simpler way ...

sorry, my keyboard is going haywire, so the sentence was cut off

If this is true -> http://www.golem.de/0611/49141.htmland http://www.source-center.de/blog/?p=75
then its pritty pritty nice !!! I realy like this...

extra links + picture and in English too -> http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4&section=0&article=88962&d=18&m=11&y=2006

Just read that SUN is thinking of moving Solaris to GPL....

wow, if you can't beat them.... join them... isn't that what they 
say?

well they have been just giving it away for quite a while now

but allowing the source too?

no that is new

close on the heels of making more of java opensource

Well, Solaris has been open source for a while under their own, incompatible 
license. This will be making it Free.

http://weblogs.java.net/blog/davidvc/archive/2006/12/web_20_without.html

...perhaps somebody more knowledgeable and eloquent about the merits 
of View could submit a comment ton this blog to explain on how Reobl 
is the ideal tool for building Web2.0 clients (including the protection 
offered by the sandbox).

ton -> on

Do you believe that?

Believe that you can build X-internet applications using Rebol/View 
?

Yes but maybe I'm mistaken.

With an architecture where the presentation code is written purely 
in code, and not a combination of code and markup, and is delivered 
as a single simple download to run in a real language runtime, then 
things can be simplified significantly.

You can .. but it's hardly ideal with the poor state of Vid widgets

Doesn't that sound like something that could be written about View?

I go along with your comment about the state of VID widgets.

...but doesn't View have the potential to offer better performance 
than JavaScript frameworks such as Tibco and dojo. (And from what 
I see time taken to download of View is not significantly different 
from that to download a JavaScript framework).

unmet potential

There is very live debate upon if it is a good thing that Novell 
will support OpenXML format of MSOffice in their OpenOffice.org version 
(open-source). I found it a positive move, as ppl will be able to 
work with MS Native format in terms of free office package,  untill 
I read following blog :-) http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=1145

standard being "thousands of pages", without the info of how to correctly 
"interpret" that document description ... sounds scarry, unless the 
blog author is not exagerrating ..

As I'm now lost in translation of MS XML hell, I fully believe it.

For me, it isn't about the current state of VID widgets that are 
built-in--though a better UI toolkit for more advanced apps would 
be *very* welcome--it's about how easy it is to do other things, 
and do them all in one (very nice) language. I also tihnk we're still 
just scratching the surface of REBOL, in part because it's hard to 
build things to share, and not as easy to build larger systems. When 
our mindset is in small apps, there's much less benefit in building 
big frameworks, and even reusable components to some extent. i.e. 
it's often easier, today, to write things ad-hoc, rather than building 
up a library and environment for larger scale development.

I don't want to register at yet another site to post comments there 
thought. :-\

You crazy Danes, running real tests and making people who wear tinfoil 
hats look silly again:   http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=2702500

:-) I read once that tin foil hats may even amplify the signal if 
it passes through the head and reflects on the inside of the tinfoil 
hat.

yes... depending on the waves and the shape of the hat, I have read 
this emprirically measured page done by a university.

M.I.T.   they also founf the government ownes the frequency best 
attnuated by\ tinfoil hats  :^)