World: r3wp

I can still get hard crasches of R3, in various phases:

do %r3-gui.r3
do %examples/run-layouts.r3


Two times I got a crash, when just closing the windows, and when 
at layout #15, clicking in the form. Once I got it with layout #20, 
and once at layout #27, clicking the big red button ...

Pekr, if you can post directly what you do, that would be helpful, 
so Bolek can solve cases, one at a time.

I just posted what I do. Running above script, closing the windows, 
and trying to click into some forms. Not easily reproducible ...

ok. anything reproducible helps.

Pekr, the 'hard crashes' are most probably related to one bug that 
is waiting on Carl to trace/fix since it looks we are not able to 
do it from the host-kit side.

Cyphre - is there any chance Carl is going to be available to do 
some low-level fixes? It kind of crashes very often, but of course, 
with one specific use-case, so "normal GUI usage" (whatever that 
means) could be without any problems ...

We are in contact with him, but as you know this can than still take 
some time.

Cool that he's available. I noticed his new photo on a vineyard, 
on facebook, so he's still alive and well :-)

Our next focus is on the skinning system. We finally want to have 
the most beautiful R3 apps on the planet :-)
 - your Twitter message is very welcomed :-)

Does it mean, that material system is in-place, or was it simplified? 
What is the state re skinning? From what I understand, Henrik had 
no free time to work on it last I checked?

Need the facilities for skinning to be in place first, so it will 
be a while.

great release ;-) thank you. perhaps ask carl to do somethink for 
gui on linux

As for the possible "look & feel" of the GUI, I personally like HTC 
Sense, and Linux Mint - combination of light greay and green. IIRC 
Ashley created some more lightweight look for his GUI too later in 
the process ...


http://www.xda-developers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/ScreenShots.png?139d23

http://smartphoneblogging.com/android-picture-galleries/htc-sense-screenshots/
http://www.linuxmint.com/screenshots.php

Take it just as a note :-)

Anyone going to help developing styles? We need more of them.

The base is now matured enough that all can help.

Robert - so the infrastructure for skinning will be added later?

We are already working on it. But it doesn't impact the style writer. 
You can add a nice look later.

Is anyone willing to try to develop a tree style?

We don't have it on our plan at the moment, but it's a fundamental 
style so this would fit good with the styles we do.

So, I see no one is really interested in this R3 GUI stuff... I'm 
wondering a bit but anyway... I think doing public releases might 
not be worth the effort.

Robert - I think that it is not accurate, that noone is interested 
in the R3 GUI. IMO we all are, it is just that each of us is busy 
elsewhere. If you look into the past of this group, or in the old 
GUI (Carl's one) old days, it was mostly me and 1-2 users to do some 
comments, studying code, etc. It is about the general lack of man-power. 
E.g. shadwolf claimed, he can do tree view in few hours, but is refusing 
to, and you better don't read the long blog chat. It is also about 
lost confidence of many rebollers into R3 in general. Or just maybe 
- ppl being in wait mode, untill Carl reappears?

As for me - "I would like to help", and I will at some point, at 
least with testing. But got my own project 2Zone moving, awaiting 
LED Screen arrival and needing to do many arrangements. I can't surely 
code tree-view,but I can test, even privately, for anyone who asks 
me. Not much next 3-5 weeks though ....

Robert: you are wrong.  As Pekr said many of us are waiting and busy 
with something else. I downloaded all the RMA R3 stuff, tested all 
GUI examples (found some crash problems btw) I really would like 
to help/write a tree style, but I'm not a good Rebol coder I'm afraid.
So please keep up the work.

Robert -- an R3 GUI just isn't one of my priorities just now.


While  there is no likely target date for a beta release of R3, all 
my REBOL development is on R2.


I was happy to help debug R3 alphas while that project had some momentum, 
and I may be again in the future, But right now, I just do not have 
the time for what I have to consider to be speculative projects.

I hope you do get the help and feedback you need.

Robert, I am in the same boat working on an R2 application when I 
get the time to even work on that. I do understand your frustration 
though after listening to all the concern.  As Endo said, please 
keep up the good work.

I will be more actively interested when I start having to write code 
that requires any GUI at all, but what I'm working on right now doesn't 
even need a web interface. All batch and server stuff, and almost 
all the REBOL stuff is R3. This can't last forever, so I will eventually 
need a GUI. I am working on ODBC though.

Well, we all have a hell lot to do. There are just a some simple 
facts:


- making public releases cost us time. Not horrible lot but anyway...

- people are interested to take a look at the code and run the tests...
- maybe we get some feedback

All nice, but it doesn't move us forward faster.


I'm not frustrated I'm just wondering.... there are still a lot of 
excuses why R3 can't be used (which is wrong) but only a very few 
people try to build something with it.

Anyway... we continue with our development but public releases will 
have lower priority. We are using our stuff to build some small tools, 
we will publish. Than you might take a look what's possible.

Well, that contradicts a bit expectation, that RMA's GUI is RT's 
officially endorsed GUI to be bundled with R3. OTOH there are no 
official R3 releases anyway, so ....

I understand that you are focusing resources as much as possible, 
otoh it is a bit dangerous aproach - R3 GUI saw rather intense concept 
changes during last year. Anyone eventually willing to give it a 
try once time permits will think twice, as recent public release 
could be pretty much outdated in few weeks, API wise, etc. There 
should imo be a way, that upon some request or bunch of requests, 
public release is done e.g once in few months?

But that's just theoretical situation anyway ....

Anyone eventually willing to give it a try once time permits will 
think twice
 - excuses?

no, just real-life aproach. If there is a risk, that half year SW 
might be outdated API-wise, I would at least check how safe I am 
using last published distro,no? But - everything is solvable - those 
who really want, surely would find their way to the latest stuff 
...

Ladislav - those might be just the same "excuses" as with R3 ... 
some ppl claimed, that they are not using R3, as it is not known, 
if Carl will develop it any further ... while Carl stated his intention 
to do so ...

That are not the same excuses. For core, the excuses are, that Carl 
is not developing. For R3 GUI, the excuses are that we *are* developing.

;-p

to give it a try once time permits

 - It didn't in the past, so high chances are that it won't in the 
 future too. Further it might be 1-2 persons. I take the risk of loosing 
 those...

hmm, that makes R3 GUI a private, mostly a closed effort. The only 
question which remains now is - once R3 development is re-established, 
is R3 GUI becoming part of official distribution, or not? What's 
Carl's take on that? :-)

That would depend if Carl approves it, and AFAIK he has not looked 
at any of the changes yet. However, it won't affect the development 
of the R3 GUI, whether he approves it or not. It will still be made.

Exactly.

ah, so it might be just a separate package,like RebGUI is to VID 
... yes, that's possible too ... we just did not want to have many 
GUIs available. But R3 GUI is in limbo anyway, so ....

we just did not want to have many GUIs available

 - that is pure theory. Currently, R3GUI is the only available alternative 
 working with the present interpreter version.

and: Than you need to take action and change it. It's not a "musical 
request programm" where you want something and it will happen.

No, not a musical request program, just whole REBOL ecosystem being 
 a hilarious parody ....

...And, R3GUI is not in limbo, it is being developed

I know ...

Will your planning app (which abbreviation I forgot - NNLP?) version 
2 be done in R3?

No, NLPP 2.0 is already being tested, and adjusted (finishing touches), 
in R2

BTW, it is not a "plannig app"

Rather it can be called a "Performace pricing" program, i.e. a program 
implementing a performance pricing methodology.