World: r3wp

is that worth the effort of telling the user how to use bsdiff? or, 
even worse, implementing that in rebol...

why is patch size so big? You once showed some 20kb or so patch size 
for an app. It probably depends upon what you actually patch, no? 
If it is rebol itself, it will nearly mean downloading it once again, 
it if it change in your encapped app, it could be smaller, no?

Normally, VM should be lighter when the dual rendering core will 
be removed: actually, there is the old Rebol one (for effects and 
text) and the AGG one (for Draw). Effects needs to be proted on AGG 
AFAIK

proted=ported

yes, that is possilbe, DideC

petr: don't be fooled. my technique was to update apps produced with 
THE SAME ENCAPPER, i.e. same version of rebol, changed rebol code.

so, you just update the rebol code.

i do that in a better way in the detective.

when you update the detective, you only download the rebol code. 
the interpreter can be updated too, and you just download a new compressed 
interpreter.

That is what I talk about, so an misunderstanding :-) I miss e.g. 
desktop being in separated file, as is with IOS IIRC ....

you don't need bsdiff to do that :)

the diff could be done on the server, and the merge only contain 
data and offsets?

where is that detective stuff? does it protec to run nly authorized 
files?

google helped :)

Ok, I know I raised this topic already a few times but nevertheless 
here it's again:

Does anybody see a chance that we could create a sync interface in 
Rebol that communicate with smartphones? I would like to sync contacts 
and appointments that's it for now.


Such an interface could be used together with xpeers and move us 
a hughe step ahead WRT convince Outlook users etc.

Yes, general sync framework, even for something better than IOS is. 
I am near writing proposal for who would be willing to develop file-exchange 
framework, but supporting certificates, e-signatures. Maybe I could 
get something like 1000 EUR for that, but I know that is hardly enough 
for you "west" folks :-(

The "low price" of solution would be to actually get "license for 
the code", which would be later released to be as free to rebol community.

The only sync projects I know about was DocKimbel's Rsync port attempt 
(it was not finished, as it was said as being too slow in rebol) 
and Graham's Coyote?

Robert: What do you understand under a sync interface. Easiest way 
and most compatible way would probably be to support syncML, as at 
least symbian supports it, but this would mean that IOS has to become 
a syncML server, that's not so easy - I think.

I dunno what is Outlook syncing based upon ....

I think they have their own protocol - at least in regard to exchange.

but we are talking about syncing mobile users with Outlook, right? 
So the question is, what protocols are used on smart devices ...

symbian for instance will support from v9.0 on (at least the announced 
this) exchange protocol for exactly that reason

and they use syncML - I just don't use outlook or anything common 
so I never could test it (SE P900)

It is really a BIG problem. I work close to management and some of 
them change their devices every few months ;-) - you know those geeks 
:-), and we have to install plenty of sw, set-up devices in various 
modes, for various operators, cooperating with notebooks, etc. A 
real pain. Symbian are pigs. Gettrin new P910  one year ago connected 
via BlueTooth was real pain. Companies release beta level quality 
sw ...

Michael, yes something like SyncML.

Petr, keep it simple. I just want to sync an address block to the 
mobil so that it's added to the contact database. That's it.

I wonder, why there is not any standard, e.g. for exporting cell-phone 
content, or to import it later, between all producers ...

I have friends who run large cell phone shop here and they do both 
- export cell phone contacts, as well as backup all phone info, becase 
there are sometimes problems with new sw, which refuses to import 
setttings backed-up by older sw version and similar mess, and I talk 
about Nokias only ...

so what do they use? SyncML?

isn't there ?: what about vcards, vblabla and so on and again syncML 
even though thats XMLish and not REBOLish :-)

don't know, I didn't want to say there is something easy, but there 
is something, but last time I looked into syncML for syncing my phone 
with my own software it seamed quite complicated (at least under 
Symbian), but I didn't check it out too carefully (I mean only from 
the Symbian C++ docs wasn't so easy to get the overall picture)

I think the problem with syncML is also that it got /is (I didn't 
know this before) some sync-everything protocol, which is now huge 
and probably complicated (wasn't just my opinion)

So, at least is it possible to send some SyncML stuff to the phone 
from Rebol and get back some answer?

Maybe I shouldn't have talked so much. :-) That's at least what I 
was hoping for, but as far as I understood the Symbian docs, you 
need a complete syncML server the phone connects to. I might be wrong 
as for instance I don't know how Outlook right now syncs with the 
Symbian phones. Maybe I should look into it once more. I'm trying 
to develop some small app for my phone, but I didn't reach the point 
yet to sync the stuff with a desktop application (that's where I 
originally thought syncML might be handy).

The soft you get with your phone to sync things is a complete syncML 
server? I know there are open-source libs for SyncML.

So, how to access the phone at all? I have a SE P800 and this USB 
cradel thing. How can I send it something from Rebol?

That's the big question. I didn't get that far yet, as I was fighting 
with Symbian C++ on the phone first - sorry. But I try to find something 
in the docs or on the web now.

Robert - my experience is only that e.g. for Nokia, you need their 
Suite. Symbian communicates via mrouter.exe, which you can download 
separately. Have you ever tried to get various phones connected via 
bluetooth? A nightmare. Bluetooth "simulates" serial connection. 
Symbians are used to initiate connection themselves. So they will 
disconnect PC and try to connect back. But they communicate with 
mroute.exe, which serves as gateway or so ...

I stoped looking for it. :-( If somebody finds something I would 
be interested. 

Besides that: I think it's not so easy to access the phone directly, 
e.g. I don't know whether there is some device what could be accessed 
when the phone is in the cradle or connected via bluetooth or infrared. 
Could be that it's just a Windows Explorer thing that it looks like 
a normal device and that this is hardcoded (it uses of course the 
com port somewhere in the background) so that even copying something 
to/from the phone is non-trivial. At least in this case one could 
write a small application which exports (in this case) the block 
of addresses, writes them to a file and the file could be read by 
Rebol.

I will shortly post name of sw for backing up some of phones ...

Pekr: So you answered it. :-)

those companies are pigs, sorry. Why to make things easy? Look at 
Olympus digicams - although I am Canon brand follower, once you connect 
olympus, you have access to normal filesystem/dir structure. The 
same goes for some of cell phones, but not everything can be seen 
this way, mostly only media stuff - photos, sounds, etc.

You have access to the filesystem in the SE PXXX phones too, but 
it seams no access via the OS in general, just via selected applications 
as the Explorer (counterproofs welcome :-). To be more exact in this 
case not the full filesystem, but the "filestructure" supposed to 
be seen for the user, according to the UIQ concept of categories 
and stuff.

Try to look at MobilEdit at http://www.mobiledit.com

heh, it looks being Czech software. Those cz guys, are sometimes 
good, right Cyphre? :-)

Robert - look at that - looks good, it adds new things via plug-ins. 
And as those are czechs, maybe we could ask them, if kind of "command-line" 
utility would be possible at some good price :-)

they provide even SDK

they have message board, developers forum, per-phone forum etc.

Symbian OS not supported yet. And it wouldn't exactly be a "Rebol" 
solution, for the task Robert envisioned. :-( But interesting nevertheless.