World: r3wp
[All] except covered in other channels
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AdrianS 23-Jan-2008 [2517] | I think that someone's world view has to change once they see the world through the lens of the WWW. For the better, to feel part of a 'smaller', more social world. For the worse (and in the end for the better), to see how much worse off you are compared to others due to international neglect from rich nations towards the poor ones, political corruption, etc. - the pain at the realization of this being the catalyst for change. So, it's not strictly about improving your ABC's. |
Reichart 23-Jan-2008 [2518] | What a cool reward! You've survived a dozen childhood ailments, dysentery, malaria, starvation…and here is a shiny new plastic thing. There is little educational evidence that computers increase educational outcomes in schools. There is little evidence there is little evidence. We have no idea what the impact of these computers in that environment is going to be…lets all be very quiet and not judge for about 20 years… |
Tomc 23-Jan-2008 [2519] | I suspect it will help the childrens children |
Graham 23-Jan-2008 [2520] | Sure ... a billion Chinese want to have the same shiny tools as those in the USA as seen on the WWW, and this is leading to environmental disaster in China. |
Graham 24-Jan-2008 [2521] | Tomc, who knows what the life of these OLPCs are ... most PCs don't last 5 years. |
Tomc 24-Jan-2008 [2522] | but as the Jesuits say "give me the child and i will give you the man" |
Graham 24-Jan-2008 [2523] | I thought the Jesuits only spoke in Latin |
btiffin 24-Jan-2008 [2524] | Graham; OLPC may, in some small part be a guilt relief mechanism, but so? So is CARE, CCF, and many many other relief organizations. I think these organizations may, in the end, be of less impact than OLPC. I don't think the XO's are meant to be fish, they are meant to teach fishing ... not even necessarily the ABCs. Even if the impact is sub-optimal, people should still try. The world's wealth and opportunities may be spread out unfairly, but I'm pretty sure IQ is spread out evenly. Let's give it a chance. Who knows, the feedback loop may eventually even seep back to British Columbia and we Canadians may start to rethink clear-cut logging. The whole butterfly fart aspect of Chaos Theory thing. |
Tomc 24-Jan-2008 [2525] | not the ones I met |
Ashley 24-Jan-2008 [2526] | One of the more interesting, and probably more practical, aid programmes I've come across is Oportunity International ( http://www.opportunity.org.au ) which provides micro-loans to poor people wanting to start a business. |
Tomc 24-Jan-2008 [2527] | the one I am familar with over this way is http://www.kiva.org/ |
Gabriele 24-Jan-2008 [2528x3] | Henrik, obviously, i told him long ago, and his answer was "it's not open source". :) i told him again this time, that if they had used rebol, it would not be that slow, "but it's not open source" ;) now i wonder how many python bugs they fixed. |
there is one thing we could do though, which is to buy one laptop, and start making our own clone of their ui with rebol, and then show them how much better it is. :) | |
Graham, the thing is, if just .1% of them learns how to program, they can earn a lot of money and eventually start changing things. if we keep them out of the digital world, they will never be on par with us here. | |
Pekr 24-Jan-2008 [2531] | good idea towards mimicking their UI using VID3! :-) |
Henrik 24-Jan-2008 [2532x2] | Gabriele, "but it's not open source". That's the default answer you'll get, but I would think it's more "but it's not GPL". Even if it were fully open under a BSD license, it would still not be good enough. If they were interested in BSD software, they wouldn't respond that way. |
I guess having a technical advantage is not a factor with GPL software. | |
Gabriele 24-Jan-2008 [2534] | i don't know. anyway, my friend says that most of the people there are python zealots, and would not accept anything else. (he doesn't personally like python.) |
Pekr 24-Jan-2008 [2535] | huh ... but did they built OLPC for children out there, or for the Python zealots? |
Henrik 24-Jan-2008 [2536x2] | pekr, good point. :-) I don't think they can be impartial to the language used. I wonder what they would do if Python wasn't open source. |
they should put a machine code monitor in there too, for computer science classes. | |
Gabriele 24-Jan-2008 [2538] | i think, that many developers in the project are volunteers (my friend is), so i guess they got to pick the language they wanted :) |
Henrik 24-Jan-2008 [2539] | I wonder why they chose that over Ruby. Perhaps Ruby is really hyped too much. |
Gabriele 24-Jan-2008 [2540x2] | probably python has more bindings (to gtk, cairo, and so on) |
or maybe it's just because the head developer was a python zealot, i don't know. i haven't asked. | |
Henrik 24-Jan-2008 [2542x2] | :-) |
Graham, but is it the same people? I read a lot about how starving people in clay huts have no use for laptops, but when I read about it on Wikipedia, it's not targeted at these people, but people who already have enough infrastructure to support this. When I look at the pictures of kids with OLPCs, they don't live in clay huts or are starving. | |
Pekr 24-Jan-2008 [2544] | Yes, Python has something like list of 10 - 15 bindings to various UIs. Ruby is close though. But for me Python is more readable. Of course I would prefer REBOL, but that's me, REBOL zealot. |
Henrik 24-Jan-2008 [2545x2] | and if you want to turn the situation around in those places, education is key and a laptop is a good step, but it's only one small part of it. it's just getting so much attention that people think it's the only step that will be taken. |
I just wonder if they will keep selling the machine to us as well. Looking at the machine boot, it doesn't look all that slow. It would make for a nice little server. | |
Pekr 24-Jan-2008 [2547] | we can be clever enough too. if VID3 is nice, it can get used by those children for educational purposes anyway, no matter what their UI is written in primarily :-) |
Henrik 24-Jan-2008 [2548] | if anything, it would be a nice tech demo. demonstrate how much software can be packed onto an OLPC, if it's all written in REBOL. |
Luis 24-Jan-2008 [2549x2] | Formula for Milking the Digital Divide http://www.deeshaa.org/2005/11/05/formula-for-milking-the-digital-divide/ |
Henrik: The problem is not hardware or how much software. Schools need soft for teaching-learning, designed on pedagogical principles. Cmap Tools is an excellent example. (50 Mb of java) What about an rebol version ? (3Flex is a good basis) | |
btiffin 24-Jan-2008 [2551] | As Gabriele pointed out; OLPC information is full of FUD. The "good guys" just want to provide a leg-up to some children. The "bad guys" seem threatened and will use money and misinformation as they smile and nod and pretend to help. ;) It is better to stay overtly positive to fight the misinformation imho. So in that vein; OLPC and the XO is perfect. All decisions are the very best and could not be made any better. :) |
Maarten 25-Jan-2008 [2552] | And we all should say "Yay OLPC" once per hour in a crowded place! |
Tomc 25-Jan-2008 [2553] | or team up and go door to door ... |
Graham 26-Jan-2008 [2554x6] | Gabriele, I don't think that argument stands. So, even if .1% learn to program and make some money, there is still the lost opportunity to save lives and enrich them in more basic ways. |
People don't need to learn to program at a very early age ( I presume the XO is aimed at young children ). | |
Education would be better served with some clean water, food and a teacher. | |
And what sees is that anyone with any smarts leaves their country of birth and heads off to the USA. | |
Further impoverishing their bretheren. | |
Look at how many doctors of Indian origin now practice in the USA, and no longer in their own countries. | |
Gabriele 26-Jan-2008 [2560x2] | graham, i would agree with you 100%, you we're talking about teaching them how to get or make clear water and food, and if we train them as teachers (as opposed to sending teachers) |
do you think that those that go to the usa don't have relatives or friends? and, isn't that an improvement for them at least anyway? keep in mind, in most of these countries, the problem is corruption, and sending more money makes that worse. sending laptops does not increase corruption at least. | |
Luis 26-Jan-2008 [2562] | sending laptos or selling laptops ? |
btiffin 26-Jan-2008 [2563] | clean water, food and a teacher The XO connections to the net (may, will, I expect) add to the teacher part. An entire generation of youth may get that little glimpse that there are answers to their questions. And then a butterfly flaps its wings. :) And one of those little ones may find out how to purify the local water from a HAZMAT database, and hey clean(er) water. OLPC is perfect. It's going to succeed ... perfectly. :) |
Graham 26-Jan-2008 [2564x2] | there's probably more information on the net on how to make a molotov cocktail than to purify water |
This is inappropriate technology | |
Reichart 26-Jan-2008 [2566] | Ashley, yeah, that whole micro-loan thing looked cool at first…several of my friends that are economists are working on a paper that analyses the impact of that. It is looking very bad sadly. |
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