World: r3wp

No, I think they're part of your app

They're still relevant to measuring app size and complexity.  If 
they break, you still have to maintain them.

Agreed at one level......But if they came encapped, we'd be using 
them just the same as binary black boxes. Their code size is irrelevant 
to the application in question.

I have Rebgui in mine .. I didn't write it .. but I sure have had 
to help debug it.

ok... i didn't spend much time on this so not really sure how accurate 
this is... but this is Qtask:

folders: 218
files: 837
raw-bytes: 17651344
compressed-size: 3244150
raw-lines: 429986
code-lines: 293786
elements: make object! [
    string: [521438 8594106]
    datatype: [37918 247826]
    number: [57990 88982]
    refinement: [26270 181586]
    function: [486088 2264004]
    comment: [85910 3524536]
    body: [1005200 8675686]
    whitespace: [2220814 12162574]
]

Half a million functions? That's huge!

300k LOC, if I take that 1 LOC of REBOL is roughly 10 LOC of C on 
average (probably underestimated), it ends up being equivalent to 
3M LOC which is almost the size of Windows NT4 OS codebase!


I wonder what kind of tools is used at Qtask to keep track of such 
large codebase?

:)

We hope to make Qtask smaller over time, but Qtask is indeed do a 
lot of things...

doing

Here is my application result:
 
make object! [
     folders: 1
     files: 2
     raw-bytes: 1690752
     compressed-size: 396721
     raw-lines: 30110
     code-lines: 26330
     elements: make object! [
         string: [10677 256191]
         datatype: [3632 22230]
         number: [6178 10820]
         refinement: [894 5668]
         function: [29473 127244]
         comment: [50 1557]
         body: [61360 701524]
         whitespace: [112264 565518]
     ]
     element-definitions: ["comment" [
             cmt
         ] "datatype" [
             date!
             issue!
             money!
             pair!
             time!
             tuple!
         ] "number" [
             decimal!
             integer!
         ] "refinement" [
             refinement!
         ] "string" [
             char!
             email!
             file!
             string!
             tag!
             url!
         ]]
]
 

Lines of code is definetly wrong here, because I have a rebgui oneliner 
in it .

Dockimbel <Half a million functions? That's huge!>
That is huge! It's the biggest application disclosed so far!

But "function" is a technical definition that includes op! and perhaps 
other internal datatypes.....We could refine the application sizer 
to count those separately.

Thanks Robert for the comments here and on the ML.

It would make sense to refine the application-sizer to have the option 
to exclude specfic files, like rebgui. Then perhaps an app would 
have two counts:
-- all source files 
-- "unique" source files.

Keep in mind, there is likely to be redundancy in those numbers. 
we do have a couple things where we keep multiple versions.

eg. that also counts the old Qtask UI that is almost unused now.

tools we use... Mercurial.

As stated...we will make things smaller over time.

But even after it all, with this number of people, the source needs 
a level of redundancy...


But yeah, it seems a bit  silly to me when people say they have the 
"biggest" REBOL application, because unless you are working on something 
of the scale of what we have been doing, and that is quite unlikely... 
 And we are speeding up, and making even more every day.

Traditionally an application is a stand alone distributable.  That's 
my claim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_software

Dockimbel <Half a million functions? That's huge!>

I've updated application-sizer.r to break the previous count (which 
was of any item of type any-function?) to distinguish action! op! 
and native!

The newer counts may be more meaningful. Plus a few other changes 
as suggested by Ashley and Robert. Thanks guys!
More info:
http://www.rebol.org/ml-display-message.r?m=rmlDHZC

IT would be cool if it had an output that was flat text (not REBOL), 
this way we can through it in a spreadsheet quickly, and over time, 
paint a picture of how people program... (size matters, but relative 
usage of REBOL is of greater interest to me).

Nice idea  -- I'll add a /flat refinement tomorrow!

Very cool, thanks....

(it truck me, you ""might" want to add the version number of the 
test maker)

Thanks -- I did that in the current release.

Actually, the refinement is /CSV -- but your wish has, I think, been 
taken into account.

You can grow a CSV file one row per run of application-sizer.r to 
gather lots of metrics.
All we now need to do is work out what those metrics mean!
http://www.rebol.org/view-script.r?script=application-sizer.r

Anyone know of a PDF forms editor that is freeware or opensource?

I only need to fill out a PDF form and don't trust these online editors 
as to what they are doing with the information.

I seem to remember using something like this in OpenOffice.

I'll look into that.  Was hoping for something a bit more petite.

I did a google search, but it seems that most products charge for 
that function. However, most charge 10 to 20 dollars. Try searching 
sourceforge for "PDF".

Yeah I did and finally did get a product but most couldn't do the 
job.  But it turns out this didn't contain forms so I had to overlay 
text on it..

Foxit Reader is nice free alternative to Adobe Reader, but dunno 
if it allows editing - http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php

Look around at portals like: http://www.planetpdf.com, http://www.pdfstore.com
, http://www.pdfzone.com

Acrobat reader can fill in a pdf form.

Thanks Pekr.  Graham, I think the problem was that I figured out 
this PDF form didn't really have FIELDS to fill in.

A happy, peaceful and prosperous new year to one and all.

Thak you Peter. I hope the same for you, your family and everyone 
who reads this message.

Happy new year to everyone one too!

Plus a happy last month of the lunar ("chinese") year for those to 
whom that is the important time marker.

REBOL lives to fight another year. I'm glad to have known you all 
for another orbit. Let's hope for more happiness all around.

Why would we even think to have hope for more happiness because it 
is a new year? One man's happiness may be another man's terror.

Just being realistic about it that is all.  Not meaning to tread 
on your wishes Gregg,

One man's happiness may be another man's terror.

 -- Then let us hope for, and work towards, the elimination of things 
 that cause this disparity.

Better said Gregg.

Wevoften wish people a good morning each morning we see them. Why 
not offer them a longer term good wish too?

Nothing wrong with that.

My host provider no longer support REBOL. So looks like I'm going 
to be changing my host provider

Time for one of the VPS hosts like slicehost or linode?

For several years I've been using REBOL for CGI on sites hosted at 
Lunarpages.  I never asked before trying it, but they've never given 
me any troubles about it.  They have shut down several PERL scripts 
that were in use on the same servers, and they've also emailed me 
about folders with names that they considered potentially suspicious, 
so they are paying attention...

Yeah I ran REBOL in the past with this host which needed to ENABLE 
something before so I thought if I just replaced the binary with 
a new one with same name it would be no problem but it didn't work. 
 So I'm out of luck with them.  I get money back prorated so I'm 
going to switch providers.