World: r3wp

It's the kind of testimony that was really missing

 - I thought that everyone here knows that (unless his fist name is 
 Alphe, that is)

I was holding back for quite some time now. It was not the right 
approach, taking into account all the evidence available, so, here 
goes:

To whom it may concern.


Knowing, that Shadwolf does not consider himself a member of this 
community according to his own messages:

* "I'm retired from rebol community"
* "I'm announcing my retirement of this community."
* "My hate toward rebol community has been growing up alot"

* "I don't want to contribute to anything  handled the rebol community 
way"


, and knowing that he at least tried to insult all the members of 
this community, I have to ask:


* What exactly it is we are waiting for to stop him spread his hatred 
to this community?
* Why do we want to make his hatred to the community web-public?

* Why do we want him to misuse the community communication channels 
to spread his hatred?

When deciding, please keep in mind, that he did not fail to state 
he is not a member of this community.

Lad, you're just wasting your time analyzing a troll. I think that 
a troll is necesarry for any community as it helps strengthen the 
binds there. Individual opposition is understood, but bannning does 
imply opression and therefore troll's (in our case shadwolfs) win. 
So I think it's much better to leave these people ranting here than 
banning them. Also, sometimes it's fun to read them. Just for lolz, 
you know.

I admire your pain limit, but I'll agree with Ladislav. When a drunk 
pisses in your house, are you amused? These trolls willfully damage 
constructive communities

I've seen projects ripped apart by not keeping order

it's much better to leave these people ranting here

 - that is where I disagree. He already excluded himself from this 
 community, so we cannot do that. We just have to honour his own decision.

Basic troll feeding. Please move on. :-)

I also think that destructive behavior should not be tolerated...

Well, I tend to be negative too. But I at least don't spit on ppl, 
calling them names, while discouraging them from REBOL usage. IIRC, 
Terry was banned too. And from my pov, he was less harmful than  
Shadwolf is. When Shadwolf connects here, he floods various channels 
by very negative attitue. He even attacks guys as Doc, who is doing 
open-sourced work, which Shadwolf called for for so long. As for 
me, I am for ban. I like democracy, but otoh, Shadwolf is missusing 
our good will imo. OTOH we can always just let it be, he joins once 
per month or so, so let's welcome another few weeks without his attacking 
comments :-)

I am for freedom of speech so, I am for tolerating trolls as long 
as they are, at least formally, respectful and not doing ad hominem 
attacks. But Alphe has gone outrageous since a while, and insulted 
people here (and from french forums too) and their work, beyond any 
logic and without any provocation. He seems motivated only by his 
own personal frustrations. I am for a formal banning (even if in 
practice, it probably won't be efficient).

ignore lists
 are useful sometimes.

From a technical standpoint, this is just AltME's shortcomings. If 
it just allowed to block users, or even to vote on messages etc. 
there would be no need for "bans" or anything like that.


Of note, he does not bother me because I've been skipping his messages 
for a couple years already. So I don't even know what he's talking 
about. Still, I guess it would save me time not to have to skip messages.

The problem with voting systems is that they only work on large group 
sizes. And every separate discussion usually has a small group size. 
It also makes for discussions with holes in them

He made a lot of cool scripts... I feel bad about banning him, just 
because he has derailed in the past few years. I feel similarly sad 
about the situation and I can imagine how much desperation is trying 
to fuck him mind apart. I can imagine him coming back as a Red coder 
2-3yrs from now actually...

s/him mind/his mind/

My grandfather was an alcoholic, btw. For ~20years or so. He has 
been cured after several attempts and lives with us for 15+yrs already. 
He was actually pissing on the floor and saying ugly things sooo 
many times. We didn't like it of course, but we treated it as a challange 
and we succeed at the end. The root cause was my grandmother, btw... 
her attitude...

A college class mate of mine had some nerv system issues. He was 
under medication. He already had a university diploma in physics 
but he wanted to get more practical programming experience so he 
attended to this college. Sometimes he forgot to take his pills. 
He was getting nervous at these times and he was insulting the teachers 
or other students, but in a very childish and mean way. I was around 
26yrs old that time and he was 36. I remember once he got jealous 
about a couple walking happily on the street on a nice and sunny 
sunday afternoon. He just went to them and started to complain how 
can they be so liberated when there are so many problems in the world, 
etc etc

At the end he got so nervous as john cleese in the Bicycle Repairman 
sketch and finally he bit the guy's wrist. They called the police 
and he had to go for a blood test to make sure he doesnt have rabies.


By now he is in a mental institution for ~4years. I don't think he 
can ever recover anymore...


I feel Shadwolf has a similar medical condition which he makes even 
worse by drinking. But it's curable... if someone can help and take 
it seriously.

I am sorry to hear that, but we are not in the position to do that 
for him. There are sadly also too many people in the world and on 
the Internet like that for anyone to handle

It's not for a lack of trying. I have met probably more than my share 
of such people. I have developed some ideas about possible causes 
and cures that I try to relate to them, but that's all I can do and 
one of the symptoms is invariably not wanting to listen

life is too short. perssistant annoyance? boot em.

I not around here much but still enjoy and get paid well for playing 
with rebol2

Im also using Rebol2 for my paid job partly and I also agree life 
is too short. So Im not against a ban, it's just a hard. I hope he 
forgives us when he could get out of this constant grumpiness...

Thanks for all the input here regarding Shadwolf. Action has been 
started. 


In the circumstances, it would be best to refrain from making further 
comments especially in Web-Public fourms.

On behalf of the Web Masters.

:)

Kaj: voting systems may not be effective on small groups, but they 
are not harmful in any way in that case. So having it would mean 
that the system scales automatically: in small groups, you just "block" 
or ignore people; in bigger groups, you use voting.

Happy New Year to one and all.

Happy New Year

Happy new Year, is anyone already in 2012 (if so, hi from the past 
;))

Not yet in France, maybe Graham

Past mid day for me in the New Year, and it's finally stopped raining!

Crappy weather here and it's just past midnight. Didn't get any good 
fireworks pictures.

All the city council fireworks were cancelled here

too costly?

too wet ...they thoiught no one would come to watch them

Happy New Year to everyone!

I was in centrum Copenhagen with lots of fireworks. This year I noticed 
several larger BOOMs than normally. That's not very funny, and I 
don't know, what people are thinking. Small bangs are ok with me, 
even if they're not legal here, but these were like grenades.

Happy New Year!

Our wonderful municipality spent tons of money on fireworks (they 
have obsession with fireworks, the will cut 20% money for childern 
and seniors support  this year, but the huge budget for fireworks 
show will stay same) this year and then they shoot all the rockets 
into impenetrable fog and nobody was able to see anything but some 
blurry spots. I just love them.

In Maui everyone sets off their own pretty heavy grade fireworks. 
 Enough that I found about 20+ "shell casings (paper) around my property, 
and tey were all over the streetss.

Here, people do this as well, usually ends with 5-10 people a year 
in the hospital with a lost eye or hand. They also shoot fireworks 
up to a month before new year and a few days after to get rid of 
the left overs.

Endo asks in Announce:
> Why Ladislav's include.r is not on rebol.org?

I'm not sure there needs to be reason. Ladislav is free to publish 
anywhere he likes.

For those looking for include.r -- you can find it here:
   http://www.fm.vslib.cz/~ladislav/rebol/

Sure he is free to publish anywhere he likes, but it is the first 
place to look at, for me and most of the people (beginners especially).

I have tons of dead links to REBOL pages & scripts moved somewhere 
else. And also it is more difficult to have new versions of those 
script not on rebol.org

For example BrianH's csv-tools.r is a great script, useful for most 
people. But I'm sure if it wasn't on the rebol.org many people would 
try to re-invent the wheel. Anyway, just an idea.

I totally agree with Endo. If anyone has scripts useful to many people 
(like me ;) ) is invited to publish them on rebol.org. "Sharing is 
caring".

the other argument is that one should not put all one's eggs into 
one basket.  Rebol.org is owned by RT ....

GrahamC, still "the one" should (or may) put a link to the original 
script, this gives more chance to people to find it. Not all Rebolers 
use AltMe, it is difficult for beginners.

There are a ot of things that should be done but aren't.  All the 
librarians can do is track the various sites and attempt to mirror 
the scripts.  We have lost whole sites in the past ...

Wouldn't gitHubbing the script library solve these concerns?

Would certainly be easier for contributing, versions tracking, documentation 
using the wiki, ...

Please, be so kind and respect the group purposes. For example, I 
would welcome you not discussing general topics in the "Carl Only" 
group, "Saphirion" group, etc.

Still more curious which one of "Carl" and "only" is not understandable.