World: r3wp

hmm, what about products like IOS, where you e.g. want too to have 
some P2P messaging, but you also want to have in control, what server, 
client, talks to what side, etc.

yes - imagine people with just dial-up connectivity being able to 
start worlds and so on.

uarantee = guarantee

control is achieved via authorization. I have in my mind a distributed 
authorization system - no wonders, just applying known things the 
right way :)

I mean - I want to have closed (as IOS) network of users ... some 
other user starts chord and tries to send message ... I hope chord 
is just about look-up, so I still be able to implement authentication 
and other dialect based protocols/services in upper layers?

Sunanda: i'm not sure I understand your question.

petr: exactly, you will have an upper layer for that

Okay - I'm a node of an application.
How do you know where I am?
(I have a dynamic IP address)

petr: you might set it up to ignore nodes that are not authorized.

sunanda: you will have a key, that is a value inside a ring. your 
key (which could be the result of checksum/secure applied on your 
url, such as udp://my-ip:my-port, for example) is your location in 
the network.

if i know your key, i can find you.

if you key is the result of checksum/secure "Sunanda" i can easily 
get your key, and then find you.

Gotcha, thanks -- I need a static URL....So basically it's a http-mediated 
communication?

(this can't be done actually because it gives nodes the freedom to 
choose their key, which we don't want to do)

the URL is just an example. you just need a way to generate a key 
from who you are (could even be your public RSA key)

so that any other node can generate the same key when they look for 
you.

can Chord loook-up be tunneled across other protocols? :-) (although 
I am not sure if the question does make sense :-)

what happens in practice is that node keys are handled internally 
(even assigned randomly) and then you implement a DHT over Chord 
to allow for "user friendly" look up

so i look up "Sunanda" in the DHT and get the node key (or the node 
ip address or whatever) as a result.

I'm still confused then.

Suppose you create a new Altme -type world. I join it. We're both 
on dial-up. We both log off for the night.

I go to an Internet cafe (ie a different machine) and want to logon 
to the Altmt-type world as me.
How do I find you? How do you know its me?

Petr: if you worry about filrewalls and NAT - that can be solved.

exactly ...

i know it's you by your authorization. this could be your RSA signature.

petr: i'm going to implement nat traversal after Chord, using relays 
when needed (relay nodes get lookep up via Chord)

that's why messaging.r supports HTTP too, so that you can use it 
to bypass firewalls etc.

Sunanda: to explain correctly how it can be made to work requires 
quite a lot of writing :)

Sunanda: I can provide you the relevant papers about all this stuff.

well, it still does not solve transport ... Let's suppose you have 
kind of IOS, you want to connect between various servers, to various 
networks, as IRC, Jabber, etc., so you could use Chord to find something, 
but then you still need those protocols etc.

is transport a problem? :-)

well, I understand how rigid things as Uniserve works - multiplexing 
engine, various protocols/services and handlers installed .. so you 
can run http server, irc client, messenger client etc., dynamically. 
 I don't understand, how Chord would be usefull in such case for 
e.g.

... as another side has to support it too ...

so if I understand it correctly, it is good for new products, but 
not for connecting to existing infrastructures ...

if you think about a client-server architecture, of course Chord 
is not useful :-)

can you imagine IOS as non client-server = P2P architecture?

Yes, it is possible. I can actually imagine a distributed operating 
system, where the whole Internet is seen as one single computer.

dinner time, later!

... interesting - bittorent site Suprnova.org was killed, although 
I think that RIAA and other monopol orgs are crossing law here - 
IMO Suprnova did nothing illegal. I am glad it leads to anarchy ;-) 
Now Suprnova is back with Exeem, kind of P2P system for distribution 
of Torrent links and RIAA guys are finished here :-)

wonder what Exeem uses, maybe Chord too :-)

do you know XOR based Kademlia? http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/529075.html

yes, every computer is a resource in the internet operating system...

Is there a one paragraph summary of what the above discussion is 
all about?

its all about 3k

Graham, I just asked for comments on http://www.colellachiara.com/soft/Libs/messaging.r

It's a messaging framework?

How does Chord relate to it?

My implementation to Chord is going to use it.

to = of

the discussion switched to chord because I also asked if anyone was 
interested in a function i wrote for chord, IN-INTERVAL?

do you have demonstration of how this works?

you mean messaging.r ?