World: r3wp

... we need another, probably speech free separate community server, 
where ppl meet not only because of rebol, but because they want to 
...

I somehow fear, that if this server would follow Gregg's rules - 
"keep ti Rebol related" only, it would die of non communication ...

Just a comment regarding Gregg's last announcement... your point 
is much clearer, thank you... however, I tend to disagree.. and here's 
why.. 

Since the beginning of February, 94 different Rebols (which some 
call Rebolers) have visited this world.  I would say that the 80/20 
rule would be fairly accurate, where 80% of the posts are made by 
20% of the community.  I'm not exactly sure what the exact percentages 
would be, but I would say that well over half rarely, if ever, say 
a word.   I would like to hear from a few more of these folks .. 
about anything.. who are they?.. what do they do?  And if some Rebol 
chat comes from that.. all the better.  I'd like to see an eagerness 
to participate at whatever level.   


People are drawn here because of a common  interest.. Rebol.  But 
what keeps them coming back?  Is it the pure Rebol conversations? 
 I don't think so.  If that were the case, then where is the Rebol-view 
world?  That used to be the main hang out? I for one, stopped going 
there because it became dry, old, boring and censored.  I preferred 
this world because it DIDN'T have the rules.. the conversations were 
much more free and engaging.. both Rebol and non-Rebol.   I've found 
the business / marketing discussions particularily interesting.  
The 'debates' on evolution vs. creation have been stimulating TO 
ME... maybe not to you.


Rebol needs all the community it can get.  I would make few f any 
'rules', (other than the obvious).  If you want pure Rebol, then 
fire-up Rebol-view and have at it.. But if "this is not our world", 
then what the hell am I doing here?


My online community is where I touch base to see whether I'm on the 
right track, where I get support and advice, and where I learn and 
teach. In the eyes of its many users, online communication is a powerful 
medium for like-minded individuals to form virtual communities that 
provide mutual support, advice and identity.

Communications networks 
offer the prospect of greater opportunities for seeking advice, challenging 
orthodoxy, meeting new minds and constructing one's own sense of 
self. Entirely new notions of social action, based not upon proximity 
and shared physical experience but rather on remote networks of common 
perceptions, may begin to emerge and challenge existing social structures 
(Loader, 1998).

The spirit of community is essential to the vitality of virtual communities. 
What holds a virtual community intact is the subjective criterion 
of togetherness, a feeling of connectedness that confers a sense 
of belonging. Virtual communities require much more than the mere 
act of connection itself (Foster, 1996).

(Graham- as much as you may hate quotes outside of the 'quotes' group, 
'try and restrain yourself!')

I read this posts. They're interessants. I like them. But, as a reader, 
I don't post to tell that. So, if I follow the rules, Terry don't 
post anymore, because he post more than 2 post on the same subject... 
Sad. very sad. I like reading terry's posts, IA, natural language, 
and so on... But I didn't post.

This world is not in my mail-reader, it's an executable, I have to 
launch it to view, read, and write... I really think that if I have 
good time on this world, if I can meet some friends, and read some 
interessant subject, then I'm going to connect often and often, read 
more, and participate more. If it doesn't, then I forgot this world, 
and I connect only if someone tell me about something in this world 
(or if I time to spend).

sure how to increase rebol knowledge without using this wonderfull 
tool that is altme ... Maybe it has to be improved to fixsome hudge 
bugs ..but it doesn't evolve so we are obligated to limit our interventions

RebXML

The way by using a slash to define an empty element doesn't seem 
to work with the official release of REBOL/View version 1.2.1. I 
use rvdraw57e.exe, and here it works.

mdViewer

- Thanks for all the feedback (both public and private) guys
- Sunanda: 'stats - missed that one; system/stats should fix it

- shadwolf: MD2-IDE was the VID proto-type; mdViewer is the *real* 
View implementation (i.e. I won't radically change the render engine 
on you again ;) )

Quick comment in support of Gregg's last announcement: I've tried 
introducing a number of folks to REBOL/AltME, and they were deterred 
from using it because of the high amount of noise and the feeling 
that they were "intruding" on a series of private conversations. 
So my feeling on the matter is that wide ranging discussions are 
all well and fine for folks who are *already* here but could deter 
some folks who come to the REBOL world thinking it might be a purely 
technical / support forum.

Perhaps some worldmaster dividers to separate chatter from technical 
stuff would help without really changing much?

Agree, Ashley.  I would never bring someone to this world to turn 
them on to REBOL  I have other places set up to do that.

Ashley - but that is contrary to what some of us think. What Gregg 
proposed was further isolation of free speach.

I would never think of this world as of support only forum. And if 
someone thinks that average reboller is kind of robot adhered to 
rebol only topics, I may be living some other planet then and I may 
think of leaving this world alltogether ...

where will you go to ?

nowhere

hehe

a nowhere threat

Do you think that I need to be present on forum, where I am accused 
of some adhering to rules, because someone just thinks that something 
gone wrong?

I will not buy such crap as that this world consumes some bandwidth

there aren't many viable alternatives for rebol + misc chat

what are custom groups for then? Reichart said it right - we can 
have private groups. I am OK with what e.g. Terry is all about here. 
No problem on my side. I don't need to read it, if I don't want to. 
We can go to some private group if we wish to.

flaws in Altme's design is part of the problem

Graham - I don't care - but who gave Gregg the right to try to correct 
our behavior here?

I don't care and I don't talk about Altme flaw here

I suspect he has been asked to do the dirty work ... part of the 
world master job description

I talk about repetitive attitude of Gregg of trying to normalize 
our speach here

If so, I will not be here ... enjoy your world here then

Perhaps we could create a group with a list of the off topic groups, 
their respective descriptions and moderators.  If someone is interested 
in an off topic group then they can apply for membership to the moderator 
of the group.

Or, we can move off topic chat to rebol-world, and use this world 
just for tech support

In my opinion, all that stuff is plain nonsense. I lived 6 long years 
on IRC forums. Although there were OPs, I never seen something like 
that

I will move to rebol-world then

never going to please everyone .. and since there are no real moderation 
mechanisms .. there are always going to be problems

This would allow those of us who like an odd discussion now and then 
to be able to see the "off topic" groups and join or not as we choose.

I would suspect Gregg is acting on his own and no one I have met 
at RT would ask anybody to do their dirty work

I can't see Greggs reactions as consistent. I think that such discussions 
are self-regulatory. Once there is new development (e.g. View 1.3), 
ppl will automatically keep the topic. But once there is nearly nothing 
happening, I can see no reason why to limit whatever topic discussion 
out ...

yeah .. nothing is happening again, and so .. idle hands do the work 
of the devil

I am free to talk whatever topic with Terry even if I know that he 
has diametrically different understanding of religion, whatever

I think that "almost dead" world is worse than world keeping ppl 
to even the most stuping topic you could imagine ;-)

Gregg is on dial up .. I guess dial up users get annoyed when after 
the syncing they do, all they find is alt.religion !

that wouls do it

I am on GPRS at work, slower than dial-up actually, and never found 
a problem with Altme ;-)

does altme sync groups you opt out of .. I wonder ...

not sure, I never opted myself out of some group ...

Any conversation in the world in my opinion is a good thing.  It 
keeps me coming back knowing that the regulars are around throughout 
the day.  Sometimes there is a gem, sometimes off topic chat.  But 
I know someone is here.  If I have a question, I know people will 
see it if placed in the proper group.

a static world is death .. like an unchanging website

For instance, two questions today for Ammon re: his drop-down.r - 
both answered within minutes.  Other Rebol related questions go no 
longer than a day if it is general enough.  That is VALUE.

Exactly/

and the cost is .. some noise