World: r3wp

Trace shows that it does see it as a lit-word

>> 'test
Trace:  'test (lit-word)
== test

Trace shows that the interpreter - not the lit-word? function - sees 
a lit-word before it gets evaluated

not after

Exactly!!!  So why don't we modify lit-word? function so that it 
can say true when it sees it?

See if I asked someone to tell me what type this is:

'test


They would most likely respond a lit-word.  So shouldn't the lit-word? 
function say the same?  I say it should.

Rebol, the interpreter, sees a lit-word!.  Trace shows this.  It 
*then* evaluates it to a word!, *then* passes it to lit-word?, and 
lit-word? never sees the original lit-word!

I would ask if it's a line of code or data

Trace doesn't show that it evaluates it to a word.  I don't know 
where you get that.

If it did, then I would think that Trace woudl show that but it doesn't 
- again:

>> 'test
Trace:  'test (lit-word)
== test

nothing about it being word! in that trace.

Exactly, trace doesn't show that.  Trace doesn't show everything.

Well then how can we be sure that is the case?

>> Gettype: func [A][print type? A  return A]
>> lit-word? Gettype 'Test                   
word
== false

In other words how do we not know that the native lit-word? function 
couldn't be modified to in fact report true in this case?

Unless large modifications are made to the language itself, it would 
also start returning true for regular word! values

Well that is my Izkata, how do we know that - are we just assuming 
that?  I mean we know that it can handle the data as a lit-word while 
it is in an unevaluated block.

For example, why can first ['test] return lit-word then?

Surely we can return true with a modification to lit-word? function 
to do the same for lit-word? 'test

Izkata, let my pose a hypothetical question to you.  If lit-word? 
could return TRUE to this statement:

lit-word? 'test

Would you desire that ability?

No, as I would then never know if something's datatype was a word! 
or a lit-word!

sure you would.  a word that doesn't have the tick in front of it 
woudl be a word!

No

first is function! that gets evaluated. it takes one argument - block! 
that argument is also evaluated and block! is evaluated to block!. 
then it returns first value of that block. this value is not evaluated 
- but that's ok, it's 'first's behaviour

But it's better to submit it as a wish into CureCore and see what 
Carl means

Oldes I was going to personally take it to Carl via RebDev but I 
won't if the community doesn't desire it to report true in such a 
case.

Paul, how would you check that?  String manipulation?  Because trying 
to get the first character of a word! or a lit-word! errors

Izkata, how does REBOL know that this is a string?:

this

Without a context, it doesn't:
>> X: to-word {"this"}
== "this"
>> ? X
X is a word of value: "this"

:)

Izkata, I'm sure that REBOL is written in C language and in C we 
use a char type for this.  So it is possible to detect the ' character.

Why do you need this behaviour?

Just seems more consistent to me Oldes that is all.

>> test: first ['foo]
== 'foo
>> lit-word? :test
== true

what happens Oldes if you do this:  

lit-word? 'test

And here?
>> get-word? :test
== false
>> type? :test
== lit-word!

>> val: first ['a]
== 'a
>> lit-word? val
== false
>> lit-word? :val
== true
>> lit-word? first ['a]
== true


It's not the assignment or LIT-WORD? that is converting the lit-word! 
to a word!, it is DO. This is a good thing.

It is not *in any way* a bug, it is intended behavior.

If you want DO to just get a value and not treat active values as 
values, use a get-word expression. This is evaluation model stuff. 
You need to be able to distinguish between the data that your code 
is working on, from the data that your code *is*, itself.

The difference is between your data:
>> ['a]
== ['a]
and the data of the DO function:
>> 'a
== a


Just because your code is data, doesn't mean your code is *your* 
data. It is actually DO's data, and DO interprets its data as what 
we think of as the REBOL syntax. I didn't see you complain that the 
set-word! in your code was treated as an assignment, or that the 
word! print is treated as a function call. The treatment of lit-word! 
values *in code* is no different from those.

This whole discussion belongs in the "I'm new" group, or maybe "Rebol 
School".

Brian, just for you information.  Remember that in REBOL 'test is 
not a lit-word.

Paul.. so you really think, that:
  get-word? :test
should return true? Because it's the same case.
Or what about:
  set-word? x:

Oldes, no I don't because words are the medium for data in REBOL.

Actually Oldes, I do believe they should be in your example.  But 
that is just me.

Paul .. Would you expect the argument to this function to be a lit-word 
or a word?

myfunc 'a

>> myfunc: func [word-or-lit-word] [print type? word-or-lit-word]

>> myfunc 'a

word

I suspect it would be a major change to Rebol for functions to receive 
unevaluated values which is what I believe you want.

I believe it would require much more than writing a native lit-word? 
function.

Perhaps when we get "plugins" or whatever they're called in Rebol 
3 will can experiment to find out.