World: r3wp

I second Anton's statement... adding TRIM is EXTREMELY damaging to 
data.  100% of work I have done in the last year implementing transactional 
ticketing web services 100% implemented in REBOL would have been 
simply nightmarish if such data destruction would have occured.

just handling the ports is finicky enough!

as an example, I NEVER use parse without the /all refinement... its 
just so damaging... lengths become all screwed up and trying to separate 
clearly your tokens in the input strings becomes much harder.

Everyone has different needs. I can see the argument for auto-trimming, 
but neither behavior is clearly "better" IMO. In this case, I would 
vote not to auto-trim.

some things cannot be "undone" and such behavior unless it is switcheable 
is dangerous... I've had many problems with memory useage since Carl 
switch the object model so that it copies all series at each new 
instance... the old way was simple to copy... but now, its almost 
impossible to share data amongst peer instances. 


I know why he did it... but I think more explicit documentation where 
the feature was causing some unexpected effects for newbies would 
have been a better solution. and we still have many of the string 
sharing side effects in View anyways... so it didn't explicitely 
fix the main issue in the first place!

Agreed. Things that can' be undone are problematic.

so its a bit like the pre-reduce on apply debate... it can't be undone 
(unless a switch exists, then its ok)  in this case, that is what 
/only usually stands for.

I would call some person's submitted password with inadvertant whitespace 
as 'destructive' .. besides, there would be no 'data destruction' 
if you used no-trim, would there? As Gregg put it, everyone has different 
needs.  If you measured the trimming of strings vs not, I would imagine 
more are trimmed.

terry, it's not possible to implement a no-trim function.

what is the difference between copy and copy/deep?  I cannot seem 
to find any simple examples...

icarii, copy/deep copies series inside blocks, where copy only copies 
the blocks and series inside are referenced, like in the original 
block.

example?

a: [a b c [d e f]] - in this is [d e f] referenced?

when copy rather than copy/deep?

>> a: ["string"]
== ["string"]
>> append a/1 "2"
== "string2"
>> a
== ["string2"]
>> b: copy a
== ["string2"]
>> append a/1 "3"
== "string23"
>> b
== ["string23"]
>> c: copy/deep a
== ["string23"]
>> append a/1 "4"
== "string234"
>> c
== ["string23"]
>> a
== ["string234"]
>> b
== ["string234"]

not copying deep is a common mistake, when series inside blocks or 
objects don't behave or suddenly change contents where they shouldn't.

the lack of examples on rebol.com doesnt help either :(

is the above not clear enough? I'm not sure how else to explain it. 
If you want to copy everything inside a block, just go for copy/deep.

it is clear - i was just noting that there is nothing in the rebol 
docs at the moment - nor in wikibooks

I think deep is in fact default behaviour in R3, because plain copy 
introduces many mistakes for beginners.

a: [a b c [d e f]]
b: copy a
append a/4 'g
;b now has g
c: copy a
append a/4 'h
;c does not have h but b does.

tested and working fine here now :)  i generally use copy/deep with 
complex series but never stopped to wonder why..

something like the following would be useful for new people:
;given the following series
a: [a b c [d e f]]
;perform copy
b: copy a
probe b
>> [a b c [d e f]]
;b contains [a b c [{and references a/4}]]
;this can be seen by appending to a/4 and checking b again
append a/4 'g
probe b
>> [a b c [d e f g]]

;now on copy/deep an exact copy with no referencing of internal series 
is made
c: copy/deep a
append a/4 'h
probe c
>> [a b c [d e f g]]
;c does not have h but b does.
probe b
>> [a b c [d e f g h]]
append a 'i
;and neither b nor c will contain 'i as it is in the outer series
probe c
>> [a b c [d e f g]]
probe b
>> [a b c [d e f g h]]

wikibooks entry updated: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/REBOL_Programming/Programming_in_REBOL#Copy_vs_Copy.2Fdeep

Should we prepare for a revision of the REBOL wikibook, when R3 is 
out? Either change directly or make a now book copying over, what 
is ok and adding new?

Copy/deep is not the default in R3. Nor would I want it to be - I 
almost never use copy/deep, but use copy quite often, intentionally.

brianH, sorry, I just seemed to remember Carl talking about inverting 
the behaviour so you'd need a refinement to avoid copying deep.

Well, he hasn't done it yet. If he did I'd use that refinement all 
of the time - I almost never use /deep.

Brian - was there already any talk about rebcode on extended R3 testing 
team?

Yeah. It's not there yet, but its primary implementation technique 
has been generalized for wider use. Several of the dialects that 
have been implemented so far operate in the same way that rebcode 
did, including DRAW.

How do you set or reset objects within other prototype objects. i.e.
prot: make object![
	num: none
	names: make object![
		a: copy "A"
		b: copy "B"
	]
]

x: make prot[
	foo: 56
	;how do I set a to be different
	;how do I add a 'c here to set
]

okay.  I got it working.

x: make prot [
	foo: 56
	names: make names [
		a: copy "Different"
		c: copy "Added"
	]
]

Geomol, the book probably needs a good rewrite or rethinking. Only 
a few sections are still usable.

I'm trying to get a list of all the arguments to get-modes. But, 
right now, the online dictionary is broken for that function:
http://www.rebol.com/docs/words/wget-modes.html
Can anyone help?
(Meanwhile, I'll rambo the problem)

Math question.  Aside from a routine! or Rebcode is there existing 
code to do 32bit by 32bit multiply in REBOL which evaluates to be 
equivalent to C code a * b;  with no overflow throw?

c-multiply: func [a [integer!] b [integer!]] [first (1x0 * a) * (1x0 
* b)]

I thought I had a list somewhere, but can't find it. You probably 
already have all these.

files:
	file-modes
	copy-modes
net ports:
	network-modes
	interfaces
ports:
	port-modes

Ladislav;  Thank you sir.

Thanks Gregg -- I was looking for the definite list of file modes: 
world-write etc.
A bit of extra Googling got me to here:
http://www.rebol.com/docs/core25.html#sect1.1.

It would have been easier with some SEO on the .com and .net sites.

Like this?
>> print mold get-modes %Fonts.r 'file-modes

[status-change-date modification-date access-date owner-name group-name 
owner-id group-id owner-read owner-write owner-execute group-read 
group-write group-execute world-read world-write world-execute set-user-id 
set-group-id full-path]
>> print mold get-modes %Fonts.r 'world-write
false

Thanks Izkata.

The difficulty there is that it returns only the modes availlable 
on your platform.
I needed all the possible modes for cross-platform coding/

guys, do you have recursive directory read function? Simply put - 
what I need for our kiosk is:

 - script running in the background, window-less
- script checks for new drive to appear periodically
- then it reads specific directory, e.g. %/e/kiosk-update

- then it reads files, and stores them to target dir, not carring 
about adding new dir/file, simply overwriting it

It is kind of one-sided sync :-)

I can't find anything usefull on rebol.org ....

Here's some code that traverses an entire dircetory tree:

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/ml-display-message.r?m=rmlTQBC

what in the following code would cause cannot insert on port error?

updatedir: func [current-dir basedir /local contents base-contents 
item base-item item-info base-item-info][

 unless exists? current-dir [return] ;returns if source is not present 
 - eg someone removes a cd
	contents: read current-dir

 unless exists? basedir [make-dir basedir while [not exists? basedir][wait 
 0]]
	base-contents: read basedir
	foreach item contents [
		base-item: find base-contents item
		either dir? item [
			updatedir join current-dir item join basedir item
		][
			either none? base-item [

    write/binary join basedir item read/binary join current-dir item
			][
				item-info: info? join current-dir item
				base-item-info: info? join basedir base-item
				if item-info/date > base-item-info/date [

     write/binary join basedir item read/binary join current-dir item
				]
			]
		]
	]
]
updatedir %sourcedir/ %destdir/

when run repeatedly (if i trap the error) it completes successfully.. 
is there a 1 write at a time rule in rebol?

but apart from the error - is that the sort of thing you were looking 
for Petr?

Icarii - yes, that might help ....

oh my, how usefull is read %/, if you can't use it further dynamically?

== [%c/ %d/ %e/ %g/]


it is missing one backslash. You simply can't  do thing like foreach 
drive drives [print exists? join drive "kiosk/"]