World: r3wp

I just looked at liquid.r

and got this...

;; ===========================
;; Script: liquid.r
;; Downloaded from: www.REBOL.org
;; On: 6-Jul-2004/12:40:49
;; ===========================
;; email address(es) have been munged to
;; protect them from spam harvesters.
;; Munged: %moliad--aei--ca
;; ===========================

rebol [
	; -- basic rebol header --
	file: 		%liquid.r
	version: 	0.9.1
	date: 		2004-01-25
	title: 		"liquid.r - data flow management"
	author:		"Maxim Olivier-Adlhoch"
	copyright:	"Copyright (c) 2002-2004 Maxim Olivier-Adlhoch"

Does the library add the comments before the script starts, and what 
is the meaning of the date "6-Jul-2004"  ?

The library does add those comments and I'm guessing that the date 
is when it was last uploaded...

in which case it should say .. upload to www.Rebol.org on ...

The Library does add tnose comments when you click the download button.

It's partially to warn you if the munging to protext emails has changed 
the script in any way that matters -- you may need to demung some 
scripts to make them work.
.

The date is irrelevant and confusing. It means nothi ng....I don't 
think we add it any more. If you want to know the history of versions 
of a script: use the History link, eg:

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/script-history.r?script-name=liquid.r

I had a thought about the REBOL.ORG site today that would be very 
useful to alot of people and would have been much more useful for 
me early on.  That would be to make sections for /library components 
for example a winapi section for windows and one for linux etc,  
That way someone could submit pieces of code based on a winapi function 
or linux api function and then provide an example.  It could really 
help many people that use /library component.

Implemented more like a snippet collection but being sorted or searchable 
by the api function name

For example I submitted a script a while back called topwindows.r 
which could be searchable by the winapi functions it contains.  That 
way if someone enters "sendmessagetimeout" as a search word that 
could pull up that script.

paul  -- try it: you already can:

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/search.r?find=sendmessagetimeout


There is already a win-api domain, so any script can be flagged as 
containing such commands:
http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/list-all-filters.r

Yeah I actually did try it after I wrote it and was not sure if I 
had luck or if it was somehow indexed that way.  That is cool.

If you think we are missing any useful filters, let us know -- we 
can add new ones at any moment.

I think the text at the top of the rebol.org site needs arranged 
better as it has lots of punctuation and the menu on the left needs 
more alignment or something to show alignment on as its currently 
just tabbed over which isn't a problem but there is not reference 
points to the tabs making it look more thrown together.  Just trying 
to be helpful and appreciate all the work that is being done on it.

Can you do us a mock up of how you'd like to see the left menu? Thanks!

I would if I had the time and knew more about webdesign.

Just a text file would do -- otherwise we're guessing what you mean.

Well, I don't think the text is the issue.  I think its placement 
of the text.  Like maybe throw in some bars or something to give 
the menu spacing a reference point or maybe use different fonts or 
color in the text.

Please mock up an example -- you could do it in View layout  -- that'd 
make the discussion more concrete.

If I get some time I might do that.  One thing that confuses me is 
the top portion on the left it has the logon, control panel etc.. 
but at the bottom left it has a place to login.  Seems some of that 
might be redundant and might be better to also consolidate the options 
in one place on the left.

Thank would be good thanks.

Part of the problem is that though theoretical discussions are useful, 
a direct comparison ("is this better or worse than that?") is more 
likely to make better progress.

Yes, I was hoping a yound webdesigner (kid) was available to give 
some suggestions.  He is really outstanding at webdesign.  Hoping 
to get some input from him as I seen him transform some website will 
some good insight.

the links on the left are not categorize in a way that the mind can 
understand...


you have the 'sections' like Home, About, Contact Us etc... and later 
you have FAQ, New to Rebol etc 


my opinion is to get the high level categories defined first and 
that will be the main entry point a user will access various content

eg. the descriptive text of rebol 

--

It's a messaging language ` 'rebel' not 'ree-ball' ` code is data 
and data is code ` CGI? Yes ` 40+ platforms ` only 250K-500K ` console 
or GUI ` Yes, just a single file ` commercial versions = same core 
+ ODBC, SSL, and more - shallow learning curve, amazing depth ` keep 
IT simple ` if you liked "The Matrix"...
--


is lengthy and not focus... it also do not need to be at the top 
of every page...maybe it should go below 'About'

or 'New to Rebol'

and since I am babbling here... I will throw in some suggestions 
as well.


1. User are not interested in how many scripts there is in the library.

2. User are not interested in how many messages in the mailing list 
archive.

However, user may be interested in

1. Most popular script by download
2. Latest script contributed to the library
3

there is no '3'

Thanks for the comments.

Please do a mock-up of a proposed reorganization, thanks. Then we've 
got something to compare with.


Latest scripts are available several ways -- most immediate is the 
Script Library home page:
http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/script-index.r


Script popularity is available for Library members -- thoug the big 
problem here is deciding a meaningful metric (simple dowload counts 
are highly biased for various reasons)
http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/script-popularity.r

let me think through a bit... I will come back with something on 
the high-level categories

Thanks!

there is ALWAYS a 3...;-)     Picture or graphic of the most popular 
script with a quote.

If we had a sensible definition of the most popular script, we could 
do that.

by download and user rating?

user rating is an interesting concept......But that needs defining 
as a metric too. Who is rating for what? And who would bother?


Download is heavily biased by the fact that most downloads are by 
bots.

Older scripts are, by definition donwloaded more simply because they've 
been around longer

Also scripts near the start of the alphabet have an unfair advantage 
(they are near the top of any bots list)


Check out the "what does this all mean?" link on this page for a 
more detailed discussion:
http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/script-popularity.r

One thing I notice is that there are SEVERAL scripts that do pretty 
much the exact same thing - Text -> HTML, for example.


Perhaps they could be grouped together and people could rate which 
one of them they liked the best?

There's already an optional "see also" header, eg:

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/view-script.r?script=ascii-chart.r

And there's no reason why that can't generate a footnote in the same 
way that the "replaced-by" header does, eg:

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/view-script.r?script=calc-engine.r


All we need now is a volunteer to go through 600+ scripts and group 
them together.

Looks like someone once tried to automate such a task:

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/ml-display-thread.r?m=rmlPWXB

The Library now has a search tool for the Mailing list archive.
     http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/ml-search.r
Please play, and let me know the problems, thanks.

Hm...  Seem to be missing the search field for Scripts/ML from the 
logon page...

That was deliberate -- multiple searches may be clutter up the page.

On the other hand, they may not --- I've put them back, so you can 
compare:
http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/index.r

I prefer having the search boxes there.  I would expect that most 
ppl that visit rebol.org have a good idea of what they are looking 
for and can generally get to it the quickest via a search.

I think that what really needs to happen to REBOL.org is simply a 
redesign on the Control Panel.  I'm still playing with some ideas 
on redoing the site's CSS but I haven't created anything that is 
much of an improvement over what is currently there...

That is good Sunanda. I think I prefer the search tools on the main 
page.

By the way, something that I never really liked is the short rebol 
description at the top of rebol.org. "'rebel' not 'ree-ball'" <- 
kind of rude, telling the interested party how to pronounce "rebol" 
before they've even tried it.  "if you liked 'The Matrix'" is kind 
of childish (notwithstanding the fact that I didn't think The Matrix 
was such a great movie).

So, here is a replacement proposal:

REBOL is an interpreted, internet messaging language. Highly flexible, 
REBOL 

saves time by reducing the amount of code you need to write. Code 
and data are 

the same. You can find and collapse repetitive patterns in data or 
code. Write 

your own dialects. Very easy to install, test and debug. Use the 
text editor you 
like.

I just noticed my last post was to the wrong group. :-(

Could add/replace some of that with "cross-platform, CGI, console 
and simple GUI dialect etc.."

What do you mean, Ammon ?

I mean although it may be on topic this isn't the channel that I 
intended to post that message too.

oh ok, no big deal..

on rebol description.


perhaps what can be done is to have a 20 words version (20wv) and 
a 50 words version (50wv) that can be used consistently.


20wv can be used as it is at the top of each page with the 50wv shown 
in 'About' or 'New to Rebol'.


The key idea is to allow developers to levarage on what is available 
and use it to help them 'sell' to others (IT mgnt etc)... apart from 
giving them the brief intro.