World: r3wp

mhinson, if you want to see the SLIDER from which all slider instances 
are derived, then you can do this:

	print mold system/view/vid/vid-styles/slider

(Instead of printing you could write to a file, etc.)

You can easily be overwhelmed with information, however, as faces 
are complex objects.
I usually aim for key facets like:

	print mold svv/vid-styles/slider/init
	print mold svv/vid-styles/slider/feel

etc.

wow & I thought parse was tricky...

It seems anything more than drawing results on the screen is is undocumented 
at a newbie level. 

I could try to write the documentation myself I suppose, but I still 
havent managed to understand how to find what value is returned from 
these things.

whoa, Anton is showing expert stuff there. it really should not be 
necessary to work with faces at that level. try settling for VIEW, 
LAYOUT, SET-FACE and GET-FACE for now. The next level would be events 
and the FEEL object. Then possibly STYLIZE.

getting a value from a face is easy-peasy:

view layout [field [name: get-face face print name]]

but note that VID is lacking a lot in some areas, and that requires 
expert supervision (like Anton) to extend. it's excellent for smaller 
projects, though.

ok, thanks. I was sort of hoping to use the GUI for input too, rather 
than just drawing titles & pictures etc.

I know how to do that with slider now, but it seems a bit over the 
top if I have to ask you guys every time I want to use a function.

there is a replacement GUI system available called RebGUI. If you 
find VID to be lacking what you need, perhaps RebGUI is capable of 
solving your problem. (but I don't use it myself, so I know nothing 
about it).

I doubt VID is lacking, I am just not able to understand how to use 
it.

VID is actually famous for its speed with which you can write usable 
GUIs. So it's not hard to learn.

I suppose I have only spend an hour or two on it & I can work out 
how to make stuff appear on the screen, but not how to get stuff 
from the screen. (except slider).

I just wrote above a line of code how to do that...

[shakes head]...  I am sorry, I am just not able to understand how 
I use that line of code to find out for example what information 
is returned from slider for example.  Sorry, I must be making no 
sense to you.  Thanks for your patience.

This is a good tutorial, with examples of entering values, and the 
script responding to them:
http://www.rebol.org/art-display-article.r?article=pfx654q

Or browse some of the many Q&As on the mailing list:
http://www.rebol.org/ml-topic-index.r?i=view

and:
http://www.rebol.org/ml-topic-index.r?i=vid

mhinson, have you tried running that line of code? Have you noticed 
that everytime you type something and press enter in the field, the 
contents is printed in the console?

I have just realised that in your line of code "field" is the name 
of one of the VID functions, so I understand that one now, thanks.
If I use 
view layout [button "Ok" [name: get-face face print name]]  

it just  returns "none", not down or up or true or false or clicked 
etc. 
I tried this
view layout [button "Ok2" [name: value print name]]
and it returns the text on the button
does this mean get-face does not work on button?
could I have predicted this?
If I try to reference a different value like this
view layout [button "Ok2" [name: value/text print name]]

I just get an error & I have to restart the console to close the 
button.
is this where I should be able to interpret 
print mold system/view/vid/vid-styles/button/feel

to know how to ask for the parts of the value?      Thanks very much 
for all the help.  I am back at work now so can mostly only study 
this in the evenings.

A FIELD is a style, just like BUTTON, AREA etc. See the full list 
of available built-in styles like this:

	print mold extract svv/vid-styles 2

Check the ACCESS facet of a style to see what GET-FACE returns.
For BUTTON, it is:

	>> print mold svv/vid-styles/button/access
	make object! [
	    set-face*: func [face value][face/data: value]
	    get-face*: func [face][face/data]
	    clear-face*: func [face][face/data: false]
	    reset-face*: func [face][face/data: false]
	]


You can see that using GET-FACE on a BUTTON just returns face/data. 
Buttons by default don't use their data facet for anything, so it's 
NONE. (You could use the data facet to relate a button to something 
else that the button is associated with.)

Here's an example where a button does GET-FACE on a field.


 view layout [button "get-face field" [probe get-face my-field] my-field: 
 field "hello"]

mhinson, you've stumbled onto the first limitation. If we take the 
line of code apart, it does the following:

view								; view the created layout

 layout							; create the layout (object tree of FACES) from the 
 VID dialect block
		[						; start of VID dialect block
			button					; the first element, a BUTTON
				"ok"				; the text for BUTTON

    [				; start of the action block for the button. it's evaluated when 
    the button is clicked.

     name: get-face face	; get the value of the button through the buttons 
     GET-FACE accessor
					print name		; print the value (likely none)
				]				; end of action block
		]						; end of layout block


Now when I say limitation, it's because you can't easily check for 
mouse button up, release, mouse movement, etc. The VID dialect directly 
uses a block right after the button description to describe what 
should happen after clicking the button. That's part of the syntax 
and above I wrote it as:

	<face style> <face text> [<action>]


You can specify size, color, edge size, background image and a few 
grahpical effects.


And with it being a dialect, you can leave things out or swap the 
ordering of some parameters.


If you want more advanced control, you need to use the FEEL object, 
but you are definitely not ready for that. :-) Settle for working 
with VID and some layouts like above. VID was designed to be easy 
and very fast to use. If you go beyond VID, you will need a whole 
lot more knowledge on how to do things.

Thanks for your help again. Trust me to stumble on something ;-) 
I think I am getting there now.  Would this be the right way to identify 
which button was pressed?

view layout [button "ok" [print "button1"] button "ok" [print "button2"]]

I was expecting the buttons to have names other than the text on 
the button. I guess identifying the button by its possition in the 
code is what I will need to do.   Thanks.   I have never done any 
GUI programming before so perhaps I am just in a muddle about how 
it is done in general terms. I was expecting the event that a button 
was pressed to pop up in another part of the code (are they called 
event handlers?) (thus needing to identify which button it was). 
 If Rebol dosn't do it like that I may just be asking the wrong questions.

I guess identifying the button by its possition in the code is what 
I will need to do.


Not necessary. That is what the set-word! prior to the style name 
is for. You can do that like this:

layout [b: button "Hello!" [print "clicked"]]

'b is now a button face. You can access it like this:

>> get-face b
== none

>> b/text
== "Hello!"

>> b/color
== 44.80.132

>> do-face b none
clicked


From inside the action block, you can also access it by FACE, e.g.:

[get-face face]

And if you type:

? b

You get the entire content for that button face.

AH, this is a bit of a revelation..  Now I know where to find all 
those values.
And I can use this sort of construct
view layout [b: button "Hello!" [b/text: "goodbye"]]
Thank you thank you  thank you very much.

with that line, you need to know about SHOW and HIDE. If you set 
b/text like that, you need to do a:

show b

afterwards, or the face won't update.

HIDE just hides the face (I guess it's not really necessary to know 
for the above, but there it is).

Thanks, I will try to make myself an example to understand that further. 
 I have another small stumbling block here that I would appreciate 
some wisdom on please..

; This works

view layout [a1: area (to-pair rejoin ["80x" random 100]) button 
"ok" [print a1/size]]

; but not this
view layout [
    box effect [
        draw [
            line 20x20 (to-pair rejoin ["80x" random 100])]]
]


Is this because the dialect is different in one place to the other? 
I was heading towards using a slider to manipulate stuff on the screen, 
so this is a first step towards that.

I'm not sure, but the draw block should be composed. If you are only 
calculating the random position once per view, you can COMPOSE/DEEP 
the layout block or:

pos: as-pair 80 random 100

view layout [box effect [draw [line 20x20 pos]]]

(untested)

view layout [
	box effect compose/deep [
		draw  [ line 20x20 (as-pair 80 random 100) ]
	]
]

Yes, that works a treat, I suppose I could have found that from the 
documentation within a week. Now I will change the random for a slider. 
 Then I will try to make it show the line every time it moves position. 
(don't tell me the answer yet please, I only learn when my brain 
is a bit overheated). 

Would it be fair to say that Rebol is a linguist's language in that 
there are a lot of words, phrases & idioms to learn, rather than 
a smaller number of concepts that apply to everything but in a cryptic 
way?

I think it's fair to say that VID and VIEW are built on top of the 
REBOL Core. They are not intimately part of REBOL itself, and may 
not always have had the same care lavished on them as the core of 
the language.

So they tend to be a bit messier and fragmented. More of a work in 
progress than an attempt at the state of the art.

remember that you can have a very different syntax in dialects, so 
if you are not separating dialects from rebol code, you will be confused, 
because of seemingly conflicting syntax.

in fact you may be confused also by the fact that DRAW is an entirely 
separate dialect from VID.

but IMHO, it's not as bad as having to combine HTML/JS/SQL/PHP/CSS 
in a 20 line code block.

I can't remember being so excited about learning a new thing for 
ages. It is a great privilege to have access to such well informed 
teachers as yourselves. I feel like I have stumbled into first class 
helicopter travel when I only paid for a slow bus.

Nice to see your excitement mhinson.  I think here in this REBOL3 
world you will find all the expertise you need to master REBOL.

Well, I modified the code from draw-controls.r in the script library 
to get this. It is more complex than I expected, 

Is it a reasonable way to do this sort of thing please?

pos1: 20x20  pos2: 80x0
view layout [
	scrn: box rate 0:0:0.1 feel [
		engage: func [face action event] [
			if action = 'time [
				scrn/effect/draw: copy []
				append scrn/effect/draw [line pos1 pos2]
				show scrn
			]
		]
	] effect [ draw [] ]
	s1: slider [
		ss1: to-integer (100 * get-face s1)
		pos2: (as-pair 80 ss1)
	]
]


Next step is to work out how to make the thing that moves leave a 
trail.

view layout [box: box effect [draw [line 20x20 80x20]] slider [box/effect/draw/3/y: 
to-integer value * 60 + 20 show box]]

To leave a trail, you could append to the draw block (without setting 
it to a new block each time, as you've done above), but that would 
mean your draw block would get very big over time.

So a better thing to do is to draw onto an image!, which serves as 
a cache of your previous draw commands. For this, you can use an 
IMAGE instead of a BOX, and use the DRAW function to draw permanently 
onto the image. (The IMAGE style is very similar to BOX, but its 
'image facet is set to an image! for us, ready to use.)

Oops! No it doesn't !  IMAGE does *not* come initialize its 'image 
facet with an image! for us! We need to create one for it...

view layout [my-image: image (make image! 100x100) slider [draw my-image/image 
reduce ['line 20x20 as-pair 80 value * 60 + 20] show my-image]]

Another way to write that is:

img: make image! 100x100
draw-blk: [line 20x20 80x20]

view layout [my-image: image (img) slider [draw-blk/3/y: value * 
60 + 20 draw img draw-blk show my-image]]

The difference being we are using another word (IMG) to reference 
the image!, and the draw block (DRAW-BLK) is not created new each 
time, it is reused. Only the third value in the draw block is modified. 
That could become significant with large draw blocks.

Thanks Anton, that looks a lot simpler. It is going to take me a 
while to digest your suggestions fully.   I want to understand it 
well enough to appreciate exactly how this works & where I can read 
the code to deduce locations of thing like box/effect/draw/3/y  for 
myself.   I have been hunting through the documentation but there 
is such a lot of it that I may have failed to look in the right place. 
Thanks.

I advise you to review each facet in the face object:

	print mold first system/standard/face

and compare with the slightly larger vid-face:

	print mold first system/view/vid/vid-face


(Note, here FIRST is being used to return just the words of an object!, 
without their values. If you just probe a face it will fill up your 
console...)

Once you find a specific facet you are interested in, you can then 
probe it to see its value:

	print mold get in face 'color  ; == 200.200.200


and you can do this, of course, with any face you make, such as the 
BOX above.

Thanks for the extra information.  I am slowly piecing it all together.

Hi, I have continued to re-read the documentation for REBOL, and 
appreciating it more as I understand a bit more.

Are there any puzzels I could try to write a solution to, in REBOL, 
that would be good for a beginner please?

There is a puzzles group, and the corresponding puzzles answers group. 
 However, I don't believe the puzzles are easy.

It is hard for me to judge how hard a puzzle might be. I have some 
ideas of what I want to program for my self, but I get stuck too 
quick, so I need to exercise my understanding in a context where 
I can have a good chance of success.