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World: r3wp

[Parse] Discussion of PARSE dialect

BrianH
28-Jun-2006
[1040]
For that matter, what about words in quotes?
Graham
28-Jun-2006
[1041]
only if capitalised
BrianH
28-Jun-2006
[1042]
So, no difference.
Graham
28-Jun-2006
[1043x6]
I'll explain the purpose of all this.
A person is writing a text file.  It has headings which are denoted 
by caps, and terminating in ":".
But some headings are two or more words ... with the last terminating 
in ":" only.
Words inside the text, even in caps should not normally be highlighted.
that's the more complete spec.
Anyway, i have a working version now :)
BrianH
28-Jun-2006
[1049]
Well, I hope I helped :)
Graham
28-Jun-2006
[1050]
Yep .. thanks all.
Tomc
28-Jun-2006
[1051]
replace/all "</strong> <strong>" ""
[unknown: 9]
28-Jun-2006
[1052]
What is the best description of Parse?  I would like to point some 
people to Parse as an example of the power of Rebol
Henrik
28-Jun-2006
[1053]
reichart, I wrote one in the wikibook, don't know if it's useful.
[unknown: 9]
28-Jun-2006
[1054]
Since you wrote one, do you know of a better one?  This is not a 
reflection on yours, but it is a great way to know what you considered 
the next best thing.
Tomc
28-Jun-2006
[1055x2]
salvation from regular expressions
I may have added some the the rebol wikibook
BrianH
29-Jun-2006
[1057x3]
To use the simpler of the CS terms:


Parse is a rule-based, recursive-descent string and structure parser 
with backtracking. It is not a parser generator (like Lex/Yacc) or 
compiler (like most regex engines) - the engine follows the rules 
directly. Since Parse is recursive-descent it can handle patterns 
that regular expressions wouldn't be able to. Since Parse backtracks 
it can handle patterns that ordinary recursive-descent parsers can't.


Basically, it puts the text and structure processing abilities of 
Perl 5 to shame, let alone those of the lesser regex engines.


In theory, Perl 6 has caught up with REBOL, but Perl 6 only exists 
in theory for now. By the time it becomes actual REBOL should surpass 
it (especially if I have anything to say about it).
It's pretty easy to demonstrate patterns that regular expressions 
can't handle. It's only somewhat difficult to demonstrate patterns 
that can't be handled by a recursive descent parser without backtracking 
or unlimited lookahead.


I have never run into a pattern that can't be handled by Parse in 
theory - its only limits are in implementation (available memory 
and recursion depth). I am not qualified to describe its limits. 
Still, you have to be careful about how you write the rules or they 
will trip you up.
A little dry as explanations go, I suppose. You may get better luck 
by showing some magic parse code tricks :)
Volker
29-Jun-2006
[1060]
Somewhat buzzy: Its a simplified compiler-compiler. Could be used 
to build a java-compiler (eg such complex syntax), but its also as 
easy as regex for simpler things. But still readable. (less buzzy: 
not always that easy due to the poorer lockahead).
BrianH
29-Jun-2006
[1061]
Volker, it's more like it can do what a compiler-compiler can do 
without needing to compile :)

And backtracking is about the same as unlimited lookahead, but more 
powerful.
[unknown: 9]
29-Jun-2006
[1062]
Thanks Brian, but as is the theme with questions I ask, I don't ask 
for myself, but rather that the "world" can learn what "we" know. 
 So perhaps you should add your 2 cents to Henriks, and Tom's in 
a public forum of the Wikibook.
Volker
29-Jun-2006
[1063]
the compiling is no big argument  as compiler-compilers are for compiled 
languages anyway ;) the point is, you can mix a grammar and actions 
for semantics easy.
BrianH
29-Jun-2006
[1064]
Reichart, I figured as much (hence the "dry" comment). I'll look 
over the Wikibook and see if I can help.
Volker
29-Jun-2006
[1065]
Your points are ok,only wanted to try somewhat shorter
BrianH
29-Jun-2006
[1066]
Volker, it still might be a good point that you can skip a step with 
parse, depending on the listener. Parse is more of a compiler-interpreter 
really. The real point I was making was about the lookahead.
Volker
29-Jun-2006
[1067]
I can plug in handcrafted parsers with some cocos too.
JaimeVargas
29-Jun-2006
[1068]
I agree brian parrse allows you to write interpreter easily. Regarding 
compilation I guess it does that too. But the problem is more difficult.
Volker
29-Jun-2006
[1069]
aah. a compiler-compiler produces sourcecode to be compiled, but 
you can interpret data with it.
BrianH
29-Jun-2006
[1070]
Most compiler-compilers have fixed lookahead. Bactracking is equivalent 
to unlimited lookahead.
Volker
29-Jun-2006
[1071]
i guess that depends on the coco. the point is, a bnf by default, 
and code inside therules, instead of putting things in vars andprocess 
later. IMHO.
BrianH
29-Jun-2006
[1072x2]
Jaimie, I meant that parse is itself an interpreter, not a compiler. 
It interprets compiler specs (or interpreter specs, etc.).
Volker, I've used a lot of compiler-compilers before and reviewed 
many more, and unlimited lookup or backtracking are rare.
JaimeVargas
29-Jun-2006
[1074]
Brian, In this you are right, is an parse is an interpreter that 
allows easy construction of other interpreter, which the emphasis 
on DSLs.
Volker
29-Jun-2006
[1075]
then the advantages of parse are beeing like a compiler-compiler 
and habving unlimited lookup etc?
BrianH
29-Jun-2006
[1076x3]
Yup :)
I'm not sure whether not having a seperate tokenizer is a plus or 
a minus, though.
I guess you could think of block parsing as using load as a tokenizer.
Volker
29-Jun-2006
[1079x2]
IMHO that would add overhead for the simple things.
and you can use parse to tokenize first?
BrianH
29-Jun-2006
[1081]
Two rounds of parsing, one for tokenizing and one to parse? Interesting. 
That would work if you don't have control over the source syntax 
- otherwise load works pretty well for simple languages.
Volker
29-Jun-2006
[1082]
Thats where i got the idea: tokenize first and use block-parser :)
BrianH
29-Jun-2006
[1083]
I've been using that approach for XML processing.
Volker
29-Jun-2006
[1084]
sounds good. if one finds a good tokenized representation. I am not 
an xml-guru :(
BrianH
29-Jun-2006
[1085x2]
My next personal project is to go through the XML/XSL/REST specs 
and create exactly that. I already have an efficient structure, I 
just need to fill out the semantics to support the complete logical 
model of XML.
I am also not an XML guru, but I will be by the time I'm done :)
Volker
29-Jun-2006
[1087]
After i read " go through the XML/XSL/REST specs" ithought soo. Beeing 
undecised ifiprefer to run away or participate curiously.
BrianH
29-Jun-2006
[1088x2]
Well, I know enough to know where to look to figure out the rest.
Still, "run away" is a common and sensible reaction to XML.