World: r3wp

me .. just a user

Well, you questioned our downloading infrastructure. 7-Zip compression 
is a part of that. Without it, our system packages are about 50% 
bigger. When we get hit by a large publication, that will make a 
serious difference in our costs

And it's not obscure. It's based on LZMA compression, and 7-Zip is 
an incredibly popular implementation:

http://sourceforge.net/top/topalltime.php?type=downloads

Especially on Windows, which, as REBOLers know all too well, is 95% 
of the market

With the download being a few MB, you save download costs right with 
our first large package. Especially on dial-up, which is also a large 
part of the world. And of course, the next time you already have 
it installed

On Ubuntu, you can install the p7zip package in Synaptic

You know what the first comment on OSNews was when I released Syllable 
Server, after half a decade of work? I was congratulated on packing 
it with LZMA...

So, why isn't installed by default on windows or ubuntu ?

If I see a download that offers various compression schemes, I go 
for the one that is easiest for me.

Not the one that is smallest

Well, I go for the smallest that's easy ... 7-zip may not be obscure, 
but it's far from standard, on the other hand, if noone's using it, 
it will stay that way ...

It's like rar .. not exactly obscure but a pain

Windows doesn't include much in general. From ME and XP on it has 
Zip, but that's it. Distributing large and popular downloads zipped 
is really not an option. Unless you want to sponsor our download 
costs

30 Million downloads, and an all-time top ten position on SourceForge, 
is really not noone using it

7-Zip is included in Syllable Server and will be in the next Syllable 
Desktop, so if you use that, problem solved :-)

Meanwhile, I would be interested in feedback from people who have 
the guts to actually install Syllable Server, or even just run one 
of the emulator images, so they can comment on the system itself

me gutless

Me too.  But I did try the Live CD just now.  Nice.  All the problems 
were minor.  I didn't spend a whole lot of time 'in system' but I'll 
try and takes some notes next time I boot it up.

provide .zip as a torrent to save bandwidth ;)

They are offered as torrents. But it saves only maybe a quarter of 
the costs, because more than half the people download the regular 
files - and that only if the audience is good

We could drop the regular files, but Windows doesn't come with BitTorrent 
built-in, so I don't see how that would not limit the audience more 
severely than just using the most popular strong packer

People who refuse to do a simple automatic installation of an extra 
package to get at our products are clearly not in our target audience

This is a set of operating systems. It's not a can of coke with an 
open-here sign

I thought you wanted feedback

If I download any other linux distro, I can get it as an ISO image 
etc.

Why be so pendantic ?

more people have bittorrent than 7zip though - but i was kidding 
:) however you should probably use torrent (maybe even trackerless) 
if you want to save bandwidth.

Am I afraid of BitTorrent for no good reason?  I've got it installed 
but it's disabled.

I did download as a torrent.  I think Kaj is storing stuff on S3 
which has a torrent feature.

Yes

So, S3 is also the peer ?

Yes

The discussion goes like this. You don't feel like reading the instructions 
and installing an extra tool. I'm saying we're trying not to go broke 
due to giving away our software. I'm sorry, but we're going to choose 
for ourselves in this matter

I'm saying that you need to lower the barriers to entry until you 
have a large enough user base that you don't have to care anymore.

Also, we've been offering some 7-zipped downloads for a few years 
now. As I said, when I released server, the first comment was a compliment 
on my using 7-Zip. People here are the only ones to ever complain

the point of having a vmware image is so that noob users can get 
up and running immediately

Precisely .. because you're already talking to the converted.

we represent the masses

unwashed and all

I disagree, there's really no point in offering a text mode Linux 
to anyone who doesn't want to install one extra package fully automated 
in Ubuntu

The people on OSNews are far from our converts

I guess it's now a religious discussion.

No, it's a money discussion. You pay for our costs, we'll gladly 
offer other options

How much extra would a zip file cost?  .001 cents ?

I'll pay that.

Just use Amazon's micro payments system

For everyone making use of it?

sure .. just offer the option

if you want zip .. pay 1c