World: r3wp

VMware offers free "player". Maybe that is a way to distribute syllable 
too? http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/vm/

Yes, I saw it. It means that more people can try Syllable in VMware. 
We have a VMware image, but it's an old Syllable version. Someday 
somebody will update it

Unfortunately, this afternoon, trying to install the VMware player 
destroyed my Ubuntu Linux installation

Oops.

Back to Windows, cut off from my work of the past month. Not too 
keen about trying VMware again

Knoppix to get at it?

Yes, I'll be able to get the files, I think, but it was my new work 
environment since a month

How much work to reinstall? And is there a spare machine for installation 
experiments?

Yes, but I don't have time for that. Any system or subsystem that 
destroys any part of my work is not worth my consideration

Now to know that beforehand..

ANd thanks for the hind. I try that more carefull now.

It wants root, like all the Linux installers. It can do what it wants, 
and it does

I'll have to repair it, but I wasn't planning on doing this kind 
of repair ever

Yes, this general root-installation is madness. But in case of vmware 
it may need patched kernel.

If it had asked for that I would have been more suspicious. It only 
wanted to compile an extra kernel module. Which is bad enough, but 
it should only have been additional

It has destroyed the system configuration files. I'll have to look 
at those

The effect it had was eerie. When I moved a file in the Gnome filer, 
the hard disk stopped running and wouldn't come back when rebooting

I thought the disk was dead, but it was just crashed during normal 
operation. After power cycling it was OK

I don't like installing a program that way...

Trying to run VidaLinux has the same effect on my disk

I don't like an operating system that does that

VMware doesn't really support being hosted on Debian-based distributions 
right now, never has.

I would be surprised if the stock installer didn't trash Debian-based 
Linux.

There is probably some third-party info about how to get it running 
though.

The main accompanying image ot this VMplayer release is an Ubuntu 
Hoary image. So I didn't see anything wrong with installing the player 
on Hoary. The requirements mention Linux - no warning at all

VMware supports just about any Linux as a client with no difficulty. 
However, it requires a bit of hacking and testing to host VMware, 
so they have only done so on a few stable, commercial distributions 
like RedHat and SUSE.

If that's so, it would have been easy to produce a warning on any 
other system, before destroying it...

The installer was 3,000 lines of PERL code, the configurator another 
10,000 lines. It should have fit in there, I would think

If they wanted to support Debian, they would have provided a .deb 
- .tar.gz packages always need a little hacking. They do document 
their restrictions on their web site.

My complete build system for building the entire Syllable operating 
system is 1600 lines of Ruby. 13,000 lines should be able to do something 
constructive

Personally, I think they should add their player to Debian universe 
(or whatever Debian's term for their repository that includes proprietary 
freeware). Ubuntu too.

Yes

They should add their client drivers as well.

That'll get their software out there, where it can be tested by the 
community. The feedback alone would be worth it. The goodwill would 
be a bonus.

No goodwill here at the moment

They should get their client video drivers (already open-source) 
incorporated in the stock X.org too.

That would be good. Syllable comes standard with a VMware video driver

I remember! That was a cool move, by the way...

Thanks

Didn't realize that it wasn't standard in XFree, but now that you 
mention it

As for comparing 13000 lines of Perl to 1600 lines of Ruby, if the 
Perl was written to be readable, that comparison sounds about right. 
Perl isn't that powerful a language unless it's written in an unmaintainable 
way. It takes a lot of Perl to equal Ruby, or REBOL for that matter.

At least that's true for Perl 5 or less...

OK, but those 1600 lines build a complete desktop operating system 
with applications, while those 13,000 lines install and configure 
one application - without checking for destroying your system

Those 1600 lines can also install an arbitrary number of applications, 
as a side-function

Sorry, haven't kept up here. Should I be able to run Syllable under 
VMWare? I tried it on my laptop, but it never completes the boot 
process, and no time to spend digging right now.

Seems they have an old image with vmware, and vmware ate Kajs ubuntu 
when he tried to update that. If a normal install works Kaj will 
say. :)

Yes, if you have VMware installed you can run Syllable, but you have 
to consult our VMware FAQ for special boot parameters

http://syllable.sourceforge.net/faq.php?cat_id=3&cat_name=Vmware

Gregg, did you try safe mode? What are the last messages you see 
on your screen?

I'll check it out again when I get a chance Kaj. Thanks! Can't remember 
the last message at the moment.