World: r3wp

Well, I'm such a small company, so does that count? :-)

:-)

Of course, Linus has never been a company. He was a student in a 
smelly dorm room with the curtains shut all day while developing 
Linux

Why is software backed by a corporation a better route? Because in 
theory you can sue them, and decision makers are usually lazy and 
techically illetarate, so they prefer to have legal ways to assert 
themselves in case of need. I think thats part of the reason that 
RedHat succeed with Linux.

Kaj - I will open group for syncing here, I want to gather some links 
... few weeks ago you had interesting comments here (groove etc.) 
- would you find some links to submit?

I'm not sure that is the case.

Eh, what did I say? :-)

If you want to contact someone, a company will have phones etc ...

Oh yes, I gave some overview that isn't readily available in such 
a compact form

I have phones...

developers here sometimes disappear for ages before resurfacing.

Companies sometimes do as well, especially in Amiga circles ;-)

hmm, now consider RT .... from language development pov, open-source 
could be better, you say that from decision makers, the company could 
be better. My experience with top management is, that they want some 
references, case studies, etc., where RT is completly loosing ... 
I don't buy that their customers don't want them to tell what company 
uses their products. I have never seen anything like that ...

Kru, is your phone listed on the syllable pages ?

Kru?

Kaj :)

Brent just posted his phone number on our public mailing list...

only two letters out :)

at least here in CZ, or maybe it is more of an EU nature, simply 
managers want references or case studies. Last slides of most product 
presentations is - who else does use it? Pages full of logos. It 
is even usual, that during the contract phase, parties agree to even 
accept some reference business trips from other parties. It works, 
managers feel safe, that they are not alone using the solution ... 
well, marketing ...

Pekr: maybe their customers are mafia and/or military and these organistaions 
are very typically shy of their activities ;o)))

To call him for server performance during the holidays. That's dedication, 
isn't it?

My phone number is readily available from WhoIs, I guess

Dedication, but for companies, that is the norm.

AMD would be cool reference for IOS - but well, RT's site sucks anyway 
....  not business oriented :-)

well, distracting topic from Syllable, sorry ...

Petr, yes, transparency is the word of the day. What is more transparent 
than open source?

commented open source ?

Like the documentation package here? :-)

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=55553&package_id=50546&release_id=381267

hey, what's happened ?  You're using that inefficient .zip format 
now :)

Yes, it allows us to package metadata: extended file attributes in 
our file system

hehe, Tom Halwerda got reply from someone from Syllable team apparently 
:-)
-------------------

 By Vanders (IP: ---.cable.ubr02.chap.blueyonder.co.uk) - Posted on 
 2005-07-04 22:34:20
Sorry Thom but you're wide of the mark on several counts.


Systems like the Amiga or BeOS failed for a number of reasons, but 
mostly because they were either tied to a minority hardware platform 
and through sheer poor management. It's fair to say that both were 
ahead of their time, which was certainly a contributing factor. We'll 
add NeXT to this list while we're here. Syllable and SkyOS are written 
for generic Intel PC hardware, and neither are old enough to know 
if Robert or I will kill either through bad management!


Sure we want to compete with Linux. Linux is a great OS on the server, 
it's a sucky desktop. I've been running it for over six years on 
my home PC and several years now in various real-world deployments 
in a server capacity. Year after year, Linux continues to dissapoint 
me as a desktop OS. Why shouldn't we compete with that? Saying "You 
can't compete with Linux!" is just deafeatism. The thing is, Syllable 
is not out to beat Linux. We want to co-exist with Linux and in doing 
so, enhance the Open Source ecosystem. Linux can run the servers, 
Syllable can run the clients. Makes sense to me.


Look, if in two years time us Syllable developers have nothing to 
show for it but an OS that only us six run and are happy with, well 
then that's fine with me! I'm sure as hell not going to roll over 
and pretend that I like using Linux on my desktop though. Why shouldn't 
we try to improve it? Because we might fail? Piffle.

Some quick points to finish off:


o Robert is a good developer but I don't believe he has the time 
or the hardware to have written every single driver for SkyOS from 
scratch. The video drivers are from X & if you asked him, I'd expect 
the NIC & audio drivers are BSDL.

o The Open Source nature of Syllable has never been in impedement 
to implementing features. We have a set or core developers and we 
make the decisions. We have a roadmap and we're following it. To 
paint Syllable as a band of wishy-washy Open Source developers with 
no direction who are somehow bogged down with arguments is misleading 
and dishonest. Just like SkyOS, if we decide a feature must go in 
it goes in.

o I'm not aware of a single company currently working with SkyOS. 
We can sign up for the exact same Developer Relations schemes as 
Robert can. Many companies don't seem to mind that Linux is Open 
Source, I fail to see how Syllable is any less legitimate in this 
regard.


Hard is the whole point Thom! What's the point in doing easy? Anyone 
can do easy!

Yep, take the high road .. as was mentioned the other day.

A VMware image is now available for Syllable 0.6.0a:

http://syllable.org

The previous ready-made VMware image was rather old. Combined with 
the recent release of the free player by VMware this means that a 
lot more people can evaluate Syllable who are not ready to install 
it on bare metal yet

Word is that the current Syllable on the current VMware runs pretty 
fast, so you'll get a more accurate impressions than with other emulators 
like QEme. I just hope the download site is not swamped, because 
this news is currently also featured on OSNews

Chances for a network-install or by copying cd to some partion? I 
have some old machines which work for most parts, except that cds 
are broken (small desktops with some laptop-parts mixed in)

You will have to start somewhere, and that's by booting the CD, even 
if we would introduce a network install

We used to have boot floppies, but we stopped supporting them

Way back when AtheOS was still on FAT you could have installed from 
some other system, but now with our own file system you need to boot 
Syllable itself

If it really irks you, you're welcome to port AFS to Linux ;-)

Hehe :) Lost my kernel-guru-hat somewhere. The fat-code is completely 
gone? I could not make a little fat-partition and put the image there?

You can do that to shuffle the base zip file to where you need it, 
but eventually you'll have to unpack that to a native Syllable partition

I only need it as a cd-replacement. To install from there.

Yes, that used to be a common route before the automated installer, 
but to install you'll still have to boot Syllable

Can that be done by the boot-loader? booting a special kernel?

Syllable still has a FAT driver, but it can't boot from it

That way i can install some linux without cd.

A special kernel? For what?