World: r3wp

For running from fat and taking data from there, for intallation.

You don't need a special kernel. The FAT driver is separate. The 
problem still is that you have to boot Syllable to install it

I thought the kernal could be loaded from fat-partition. That loading 
is part of the boot-loader.

Which can take it from cd or hd or whatever. at least i did that 
with a linux.

You have to boot from CD. Either connect a CD player to those machines 
temporarily, or take out the hard disk and do the installation on 
a different machine

No, since AtheOS 0.1 or something you need to boot from an AFS partition. 
The live CD partly runs from an ISO9660 file system, but that doesn't 
help you any. The point is that a complete system needs to be installed 
on AFS and the only OS with an AFS driver is Syllable, so you have 
to boot Syllable to install Syllable

Now I remember linux uses a ramfloppy for the initial part. Yes, 
without that there is a problem.

We use a floppy image and a RAM disk as well on the CD. That's not 
the point

And the kernel can be loaded by a bootloader? grub or such? which 
 i can install from linux?

Yes and no. We use GrUB, but it's our own version with support for 
AFS. You can add that to your Linux GrUB if you have the exact same 
version, but it's tricky. Basically you have to install our GrUB 
from our CD. Please follow the installation instructions exactly

Hmm. If i put the bootloader on a floppy?

That could be done, but why?

Because i am now determined not to use a CD. No logic reason, just 
wanting to go with the head thru the wall. Its a personal ego thing, 
i want to find a way to do it ;)

About access to filesystem: Can that work on an image-file? then 
copying the image to the target-system?

Yes, it's easy to mount a disk image file in Syllable; the virtual 
file system doesn't need a loopback device for that as in Linux. 
However, I don't see how that is going to help you here

I port afs to linux, to write in an image-file. Then i put it on 
the real hd thru linux and network. then i have an afs-partition 
:)

The closest route to doing this would be to recreate the old manual 
way of installation. Copy the base zip package to a FAT partition. 
Download the last boot floppies that were available for old Syllable 
versions. Follow the old manual installation procedure

This will reguire fixing the boot floppies for the new Syllable versions. 
We don't bother with that anymore and I don't even remember why they 
don't work anymore, so this is anything but trivial

If you want to skip this level as well, I have two soldering irons 
for you that I don't use anymore, and the Atari-BASIC source of a 
disassembler that bootstrapped me into my career ;-)

Hmm. If i install that old sylable, it could make afs? and then i 
put could boot the new kernel from there?

You'd have to go through a zillion Syllable upgrades, which would 
leave you with a mess that has a dubious chance of working

Do you have a cable to connect that irons to a pc? Easier than snailmailing 
casettes.

No, but I have an EPROM burner that I don't use anymore that has 
a cable...

I would not upgrade. Only put install-image there, now its afs. (i 
would have networking to do that? Then install install-kernel too. 
then booting the install-kernel.

Burning on pc, making cartridges to run on iron?

Or plug cable in old iron instead?

I bought the burner to use from my Atari 8-bit. There was a PC program 
for it, but I could use it from the Atari in a sort of terminal mode

Using burner as kind of usb-stick? :)

Yes, your best chance would be to install the last Syllable with 
boot floppies (the last floppies worked for a few more versions, 
but I don't remember which), then unzip the complete 0.6.0a base 
zip over it. You'll have to edit the /boot/boot/grub/menu.lst as 
well

It had a Centronics port

Sylable - i try that.

That old irons - you dont need them anymore? Could be some fun to 
get it working. That final "It displays something!!"-feeling :)

As i have an iron-expert just an internet away :)

Ooops, have to go now. cu.

For those who are in the UK or another place where the UK magazine 
Linux Format is available: the April 2006 issue has a six-page article 
and Syllable on the cover CD

http://www.syllable.org/discussion.php?id=1007

I released a binary package of Orca 0.0.23 for Syllable:

http://kamidake.other-space.com/display_entry.php?id=336

It's done. Orca will be included in the upcoming Syllable 0.6.1. 
This means that Orca will be the default scripting language for Syllable 
in future developments (besides Bash)

Wow, sounds cool. By the way, I was just looking at Minix3 with it's 
micro-kernel, and I wondered what kind of kernel Syllable has. I 
found this Syllable FAQ:
What kind of kernel design does Syllable use?

As Syllable is a fork of the AtheOS operating system, the author 
of AtheOS (Kurt Skauen) said "I often ask myself that question too. 
The kernel is very modular and it has a well-defined interface between 
the kernel and its device drivers and file systems. Given that each 
component communicates through a thin, well-defined interface and 
each component does not know much about the others, it resembles 
a micro-kernel. I am not sure if this is the right term though, since 
all kernel components live in kernel-space and are not protected 
from each other, and these are all properties of a monolitic kernel. 
I am a bit confused :)"

That's pretty much it: the design is much more modular and layered 
than well-known monolithic kernels, but it doesn't qualify for the 
academic definition of a microkernel

On the other hand, like in BeOS, which the design is inspired by, 
many system services run as servers in user space, so we do try to 
keep many things out of the kernel, which improves reliability. For 
example, we're now extending the design of our multimedia framework 
and moving the audio drivers, which were ported from Linux, out of 
the kernel into user space

By the way, I exhibited on the Free Software Bazaar this week, which 
is part of the SANE conference, and Minix3 had a booth next to me 
and a talk after me. I am also now the owner of a Minix3 live CD 
with the signature of Andrew Tanenbaum :-)

:-) Cool. Must have been an inspiring chat.

Eh, I once planned a meet-up with Tanenbaum, but I didn't go through 
with it. The CD was just from a stack that his coworkers took to 
the conference

ah not to worry.

Very cool Kaj! I never did get the Syllable CD to work here, but 
maybe I should try again. :-)

Lots of bugs were fixed over the past year, and again in Syllable 
0.6.1, which we will probably release this weekend. So yes, that 
would be a good time to try again

I thought Orca was to be renamed to avoid a name clash with the global 
context of computer languages

It should - or I would have had an extra interesting discussion with 
Tanenbaum. But that's up to Karl