World: r3wp
[Linux] group for linux REBOL users
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Robert 30-Apr-2009 [2848x3] | I just upgraded my Debian Etch distribution to Lenny. This works flawlesly. Very amazing. |
I now have several entries in Grub to boot different Kernel versions. Can someone explain to me how this works with all the rest of the applications and libraries? I can imagine that you just use a different boot image to get a different kernel. But how does Linux handle all the "kernel dependent" libraries? | |
IIRC VMS had a very cool method to handle different version if the same file in a transparent way. | |
Gabriele 30-Apr-2009 [2851] | I don't think there are any api changes between minor linux versions. so you can use the exact same system with different minor versions of the kernel. |
Robert 30-Apr-2009 [2852] | But I have 2.18 and 2.26 Versions. Which IMO are quite different. |
BrianH 30-Apr-2009 [2853] | Gabriele, they switched to the gradual change model with the 2.6.x series. |
Gabriele 1-May-2009 [2854x3] | Robert, no, you have 2.6.18 and 2.6.26. The same libc will work on both. |
Brian: still, distributions would not send out a kernel update that would break the userland. If there's an incompatible kernel, it simply never gets into that distribution, until next version of the whole distro | |
the only case when i had problems upgrading a kernel was when i was on Gentoo, and the new kernel would use different names for my hd partitions (switched from /dev/hdX to /dev/sdX), which meant that I had to fix the /etc/fstab for it to boot. these things don't happen on normal distributions, and even on Gentoo I could have avoided it if I paid attention I guess. | |
BrianH 1-May-2009 [2857] | Glad to hear that the gradual change is being managed so well. |
Robert 3-May-2009 [2858x2] | Gab, ah, sorry I didn't mean going from 2.6.a to 2.6.b I mean having 2.4.x and 2.6.y on one system. |
IIRC this is possible as well. | |
Gabriele 4-May-2009 [2860x2] | 2.4 / 2.6 - I don't know if anything special is needed to do that. you can very likely compile both kernels in order to make them compatible with each other, and it's also possible to handle this in the userland. |
i don't know if it's worth doing something like that though :) | |
Robert 4-May-2009 [2862x2] | It's not, but it looks like using dist-upgrade on Debian ADDs a new kernel and release without removing the old kernel (and maybe old apps). At least you get a new entry in Grub. |
That's why I was wondering. | |
Gabriele 5-May-2009 [2864] | even when going from 2.4 to 2.6? I guess that if they do that, they must have tested it. i'm not aware of debian being able to keep multiple versions of programs though, so if it's installing a new version of a program, most likely it will remove the old one. (it can keep multiple versions of the same library, but not always) |
Anton 6-May-2009 [2865x4] | I am interested in improving the display of fonts by R2 on Kubuntu Gutsy 7.10. I am not yet aware of what font rendering systems are used by Kubuntu, but I can see lots of True Type Font (.ttf) files anyway. I can get R2 View to display a font (eg. gentium), but the scaling looks pretty bad. eg. view layout [text "Hello" font-name "gentium" font-size 16] |
Actually, what I'm primarily after is a fixed-sized font that looks nice at different scales. | |
But I wonder if anyone knows where Rebol looks for fonts? | |
What font system(s) does it use? | |
Pekr 6-May-2009 [2869] | 'lo. Pinged Cyphre on ICQ. He told me: 1) fonts, which are rendered in face/text 2) fonts, which are rendered in DRAW (AGG) re 1) IIRC, REBOL uses some X-Windows function, an old method, which should work on all distros re 2) REBOL uses FreeType2 library to get vector data, which are then rendered via AGG |
Anton 6-May-2009 [2870] | Thankyou Pekr and Cyphre, it's useful. |
Pekr 6-May-2009 [2871] | Last two weeks I installed two times Ubuntu server, made webmin working instead of ebox, which is crap, installed horde, etc., but I have to note, that I really thought, that after all those years, Linux gurus got educated, and was successfull in hiding linux architecture complexity from the eyes of mortal man. I have to say, that the system is still the same idiotic Linux underneath. This is really rudiculous - we are living in 2009, and instead of getting things done easily, you have to follow stupid instructions of where to edit something, to get some stuff running. |
Robert 6-May-2009 [2872] | Yep, true. Maybe FreeBSD is better in this (at least good documentaiton) or use OSX. Simple for the normal man, full access for the guru. |
Anton 6-May-2009 [2873x2] | Hmm.. I seem to have figured out how to prevent window flicker on resizing R2 windows. :) |
(Not sure exactly how it works yet... but I can now sleep peacefully.) | |
Henrik 6-May-2009 [2875] | but tell me how, before you go to sleep. :-) |
Anton 6-May-2009 [2876] | Similarly as the other stuff on 6-Apr-2009 in this group. |
PeterWood 8-May-2009 [2877] | Does anybody know the character encoding used by Rebol/View under Linux? |
Gabriele 8-May-2009 [2878] | peter, my bet is latin1, but, maybe it depends on the system locale. |
PeterWood 8-May-2009 [2879] | Thanks Gabriele. I wanted to know in case we convert the Script library to utf-8 what conversions we would need to support Library Data Services. I already have a utf-8 to iso-8859-1 conversion function.(It on't be as good as yours or one of Oldes but it works). (When I say if we convert the script library, I really mean Sunanda as he does all the hard work). |
Janko 8-May-2009 [2880x2] | hi, has anyone had this problem before? I got to a new VPS .. I downloaded rebol and cheyenne and I can't run them ... - when they weren't chmod +x if I did ./rebol ./cheyenne I get Permission denied - once I make them executable I get No such file or directory .. If I type ls they are there in both cases, I also copied them into bin and tried to run them there but same thing, I could run neighbour files in bin like ./readlink but not ./rebol and by the looks of ls -l they had the same rights/owner everything .. I also copied and renamed both files and the same .. any ideas how this can happen .. file is there |
hm .. is it possible that this happens because linux is 64 bit ? | |
kcollins 8-May-2009 [2882x4] | Yes, Janko, that is probably the cause of the symptom you see. |
There is a way to hack the executable. It's been discussed previously on this AltME world. You should be able to Google it. | |
Although you might want to consider just switching to 32 bit if you don't have a specific reason to use 64 bit Linux. | |
64 bit uses more memory, and memory is usually the most significant constraint on a VPS. | |
Dockimbel 8-May-2009 [2886] | Try this : ldd rebol to see if REBOL can find all the required libs to run. |
Janko 8-May-2009 [2887x3] | kcollins ... this VPS was given to me as a present by long time customer ... I said I wanted 32 bits but I guess his admin mixed up things |
I will try getting 32 bits, if it won't be possible I will google for hack .. Doc : I tried ldd and it said >> not a dynamic executable (so I guess that isn't the problem) | |
I was reminded that this could be the probem by my customer, he had some rebol things on his vps-s and used 64 bits and said he had similar problem , then his admin solved it somehow :) but I prefer 32bit for reasons you said (RAM) | |
Dockimbel 8-May-2009 [2890x2] | On 32bits linux : # ldd /usr/bin/rebol linux-gate.so.1 => (0xffffe000) libm.so.6 => /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libm.so.6 (0xb7ed3000) libc.so.6 => /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6 (0xb7da2000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xb7efe000) |
AFAIK, on 64bits Linux, 32bits librairies are located in /lib32 and not in /lib. This may be the reason why you can't run REBOL. | |
Janko 8-May-2009 [2892x4] | [root-:-www]:/usr/bin# ./rebol -bash: ./rebol: No such file or directory [root-:-www]:/usr/bin# ldd ./rebol not a dynamic executable [root-:-www]:/usr/bin# ldd ./who linux-vdso.so.1 => (0x00007fffe89fd000) libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x00007ff4e02bc000) /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007ff4e060f000) |
Doc: I have /lib/ and /lib64/ -- do you think that lib are 32b libs? or do I have to install them ... the client told me now he thinks admin installed the 32b libs at his vps | |
thanks guys.. works now ...!!! | |
client said that reinstalling linux would be a little problem, so this will do for now ... I installed the ia32-libs ( apt-get install ia32-libs ) and now rebol works | |
kcollins 8-May-2009 [2896] | Great! I was not aware of that solution. |
Janko 8-May-2009 [2897] | this page explained it: http://www.debian-administration.org/article/Running_32-bit_Applications_on_64-bit_Debian_GNU/Linux |
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