World: r3wp
[AGG] to discus new Rebol/View with AGG
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shadwolf 21-Jun-2005 [101x5] | I milite to integer it into the REBOL/view release ;) |
I'm downloading inkshape I will start to provide to ASHLEY a set of SVG icons in totally abandon licence .... | |
my first svg draw make with inkscape (linux/win32..) http://shadwolf.free.fr/new-file.svg | |
but it seems that inkscape SVG files are not properly supported by svg-demo ... | |
I try with sodipodi | |
yeksoon 21-Jun-2005 [106] | there seems to be some slightly difference between what Inkscape and SVGDemo renders. eg. blender.svg on Inkscape, there's an orange fill... on svg demo, it appears as a black fill. I am using the latest /View...so, probably not a /View version problem. |
shadwolf 21-Jun-2005 [107] | hum sodipodi windows version doesn't work ... |
Cyphre 21-Jun-2005 [108x2] | Pekr: SVG is pretty bloated so don't expect you will have 'full' SVG parser in 5k :-) |
Anyway nice demo Ashley. | |
shadwolf 21-Jun-2005 [110x3] | it's a very first intent so we will enhance it ;) |
yeksoon the .svg files provided with svg-demo.R are do using sidopodi workbench | |
I use inkscape to make new-file.svg and this one doesn't load at all | |
Cyphre 21-Jun-2005 [113] | dont' worrym none of my test svg files worked with it...it is understandable as Ashley surely make this in a few hours. |
shadwolf 21-Jun-2005 [114x2] | sidoposi doesn't launch in my os dependencies and linking problem regarding to GTK+ (no new version of it since one year) but inkScape witch use GTK+ too (but the newer version of GTK+) works pretty fine |
so I think as inkscape is a very very good SVG work bench we have to support this format instead of the SVG from Sidopodi (deprec and not working under win2k) to favorise the usage of rEBOL/View + svg scripts capable + inkscape | |
Cyphre 21-Jun-2005 [116] | I had to spent *lot* of time to be able show around 60% of SVG files. Unfortunately I cannot share the code as it will be part of commercial app soon. |
shadwolf 21-Jun-2005 [117x8] | Cyphre sure but at last you can share with us you knowledge and experience on the topic and this is yet a precious thing ;) |
I think taking as dev reference my file new-file.svg made with Inkscape is a good start point (this image is simple but a good sample of what we need to support :) | |
THE GIMP is SVG CAPABLE TOO (all OS) so I use InkScape And when I ritch a limit with inkscape I make the complement with the gimp :) | |
I'm preparing a complicated SVG image make with inkscape to have a good working base | |
http://shadwolf.free.fr/fraisier.svg | |
here you have a like to my haevy SVG drawing | |
TheGIMP SVG rendering capability is very poor ... | |
here is the png to be useas reference for tuning the SVG rendering Engine http://shadwolf.free.fr/fraisier.png | |
Graham 21-Jun-2005 [125] | Doesn't work with this Rebol image : http://www.compkarori.com/vanilla/display/show+rebol+svg+logo |
Henrik 21-Jun-2005 [126] | openoffice.org Draw can also save in SVG, if I remember correctly |
shadwolf 21-Jun-2005 [127] | yes but then it's hope to the enderer /converteer quality inkscape seems to me a very good one |
Ashley 22-Jun-2005 [128] | Pekr: the SVG Demo is just a quick and dirty prototype. I'm just going to get it to the stage where it can display simple SVG icons (for RebGUI). If someone else wants to write an SVG viewer that is fully SVG 1.1 (with 1.2 around the corner) compatible then good luck ... I'm *not* going to be doing that! ;) yeksoon: see above comments. I'm tweaking the SVG Demo code on an SVG icon by icon basis. As long as it works for the icons I use (or intend to use) I'm happy - I don't guarantee the code will work with anything other than the specific SVG files I have tested it on. Cyphre: SVG is such a "flexible" standard isn't it? :) One question; how did you map SVG "path d" commands (e.g. <path style=... d="M 10 10 C 20 20 ... z") where there is no "z" command to close the "shape" (i.e. the AGG shape command closes by default). shadwolf: Having our own SVG icons is a good idea as we don't have to worry about licence / distribution issues and we can tweak the generation to make it as AGG compatible as possible. To do that we need to settle on *one* tool so as we generate consistent SVG code, and we should generate SVG that uses a single unit of measure, preferably pixels, as it's a real pain trying to handle multiple units of measure within the same file. I'll continue this discussion in the RebGUI group. |
Cyphre 22-Jun-2005 [129] | Ashley: Exactly! I love the "SVG flexibility" especially when writing parser for it :-) Regarding closing the shape. We haven't seen so far any SVG path without Z/z at the end so that's why we decided to let the patch closed automatically by default. Maybe we should add some keyword to leave shape opened? |
Ashley 22-Jun-2005 [130] | Yes please! A large number of the SVG icons I looked at rely on this. |
Gabriele 22-Jun-2005 [131] | add a move to the end to keep the shape open |
shadwolf 22-Jun-2005 [132x2] | want it be simploer and speeder to adapt our parse / rendering engine to a well know rock stable editor I propose inkScape. I yet provide two reference files made with inkScape. |
I think trying to arrive to the level to inkscape in our own SVG DRAW MAKER software will take more than one year to redone it with REBOL... So to avoid loss of time we can yet work on the engine for rebgui feeting to InkScape SVG format then we can start working to our own SVG DRAW MAKER made in full REBOL... One thing that afraid me a little is the flexibility of the SVG format as it can be very different how to support any SVG file comming from any EDITOR ? For me SVG appears to me to be close to what we done with MakeDoc format. Today we have many MD like format all very good but to make a Viewer in rebol that support them all it wil be very very difficult. | |
Pekr 22-Jun-2005 [134] | Remember these days as the beginning of the end of rebol UI :-) Instead of beautifull dialects we will use junk as can be seen in .svg files :-) |
shadwolf 22-Jun-2005 [135x2] | junk ? |
why junk ? | |
Pekr 22-Jun-2005 [137] | do you find anything XML being readable, when compared to rebol dialects? |
shadwolf 22-Jun-2005 [138x5] | Pekr no but draw//AGG code for a sharpe and complicated rendering draw neither ? :) |
take my file fraisier.jpg and draw it the same translating it to VID Draw AGG dialect you will see that it's afull too (take left space i'm agree ...) | |
in all cases SVG in rEBOL/View is only a common base to allow lot of reuse of this format you have 20 draw/AGG guru around the world and 200 .000 SVG drawers that use WebBRowser Plugins and SVG EDITOR like photoshop, the gimp or InkScape ... | |
... Adding SVG support is a feature un plus you have to keep in mind that the rendering is done in Draw ... As we don't have the time, the volunty etc to make an Hight LEVEL graphic draw sofware that instead of outputing SVG output ready to show AGG code ... | |
but i'm agree betwin SVG and AGG I would prefer an AGG draw maker tool ... And the good thing would be that this king of editor outputs SVG, DRAW/AGG and bitmap format as well with out any change or loos | |
Pekr 22-Jun-2005 [143x3] | I can understand that, but I think that that way eventually View will fade and die slowly, with dialects like Flash dialect, SVG dialect. You will teach ppl SVG, Flash, not Rebol and maybe you will find out, that you eventually don't need Rebol at all ... |
I want proper plug-in, and View apps in browser. Look at Oldes - another app where rebol is used for ann app server only, not front-end http://box.lebeda.ws/~hmm/ | |
as a deployment, the aproach of utilising SVG or links to whatever libraries is a good thing to have, I just hope it will not over-grow us and we will not find ourselves using other tools and environments using more than rebol ;-) | |
shadwolf 22-Jun-2005 [146x5] | SVG is a Vectorial description for graphic content |
flash can do that too povray yafray and lot of script based application can do that too with planty a row of quality level | |
but whant can do rebol is among all of that... You can make vertorial grpahics animation and build it into a stand alone software what is flash without a webbrowsr with the flash plugin in it ??? | |
not whant but what sorry ;) | |
REBOL in my opinion and Draw AGG are more a joint betwin all existing so this ensure that people will still be using it | |
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