World: r3wp

AGG and flash rendering... Cyphre, what's your view on this news?

I'll be reviewing the new official version of AGG (2.4) very soon. 
Maybe we could put the Flash rasterizer into DRAW dialect (it depends 
how much usable it is in real world, also how much code increase 
ould cost etc.

Ok.

But this type of rendering is usable only for relatively easy reproducing 
Flash shapes. I don't think it could be usful for some other things.

Cartoons? :)

ie. you have to have parsed the .fla or .swf file to get the shapes. 
Beacause the compound shapes are generated by Flash IDE (this is 
not an easy process) to achieve validity of the rendering.

hmm, I thought we could use Flash IDE tools, "export" curves and 
let it be "played" by rebol/agg :-)

yes, that is the only purpose..but by 'exporting' you have to parse 
the fla/swf to get the compound shapes. All other formats works in 
SVG-like rendering way (ie shapes are z-ordered and rendered one 
over another)

Would make it easier for flash-knowing artist.

Usually Flash-atrist don't event know how Flash interpret and render 
his gaphics :)

But I agree this feature could be handy for Olde's Rebol/Flash dialect 
tool.

But they know the drawing-tools?

The usage would be FlashIDE->Rebol/flash convertor->DRAW

So someone would have to make the Rebol/flash convertor for them 
to be able render it in Rebol. Maybe a good enhancement for Oldes? 
;)

WHich means save flash and click rebol-viewer (with integrated extractor?

I thought that Flash tools are able to export to text file thier 
curves and commands :-)

Then we need an action-script-<rebol converter. Which is javascript 
at the same time. And thanks to google we can then run java in rebol. 
hehe :)

yes, afaik you can export to many formats for m the IDE. But the 
trick is in the way how the cureves are described ;)

You would have plenty of work with converting SVG exported file from 
Flash IDE back to the Flash compound shapes ;)

Which means you need either a clever parser, or a call to new AGG.

have a look here to get the idea how Flash renders:
http://blogs.msdn.com/mswanson/archive/2006/02/27/539749.aspx

it is efficient way (as the result is rendered in one pass) but it 
needs lot of more work to define the shapes properly ;)

AFAIK no other publicly known graphics system is using this method.

well, Cyphre, then we need you to come-up with commercial Rebol native 
Authoring tool - you know - we want to beat Scala, right? :-)

Cyphre - can you talk about new View internals? Gabriele sheds some 
light on some topics here from time to time, but very little was 
said about View. The only thing we know from blog is, that even system 
was replaced ....

I'm not agains that the Flash rendering support in DRAW but this 
needs to be well designed. I'll probably discuss it woth Oldes as 
he is very deep in Flash internals. I believe we will find some elegant 
way ;)

Pekr: I cannot tel you much news at the moment. Watch the blogs ;)

BTW I'm currently working on some DRAW fixes from RAMBO. So I'd like 
to ask all DRAW users: If you have encountered a serious bug which 
is not in RAMBO, please put it in so they can be fixed in this round.

I think that guys are interested in SVG compatibility issues, to 
have SVG compatible renderer :-)

How about a way to change the coordinate system?

I'd like to see a way to set 0,0 to bottom left ...

How about exposing the math? To map mouse back to faces, as in Antons 
demo?

What do you think?

Wait guys ;) I was asking for bug reports not for new features :) 
But feel free to add those to RAMBO as  wishes to not forget on them.

How far can transformation go? can it turn things upside down?

I think using top left 0,0 is a bug :)

But common on screens.

also similar to line-counting. top line is first line, not #66

but for diagramms it is terrible *nod+

Graham: lot of people could think writing from letf to right is a 
bug too :)

but that's for text.  Not for drawing.

mathematics uses Cartesian coordinates

BTW you can very easily change the coordinate system even now.

How?

Is there a way of applying translate to invert the y axis?

here is simple example:

view layout [
	origin 0
	bx: box 400x400 black effect [
		draw [
			translate 0x400
			scale 1 -1
			pen red
			line 50x50 350x50
			pen blue
			line 50x50 50x350
			pen yellow
			line 50x50 100x200 200x150 300x250 350x225
		]
	]
]

but this won't work with text though because it would be reversed 
in Y axis too.

Another solution is to apply own translation function on the dialect 
block or generate the dialect block with translated coords from scratch. 
(this shouldn't be a rocket science and would work with text too)

Regarding text, maybe Graham is right and a graphics-only reverse 
would help? for diagrams. The current way is a bit complicated, until 
one gets the trick.