World: r3wp

As Graham says, the addresses are munged on REBOL.org unless you 
are a logged-on member of the Library. That doesn't stop a spammer 
grabbing them, but it does reduce the risk considerably.
**
Thanks for the spelling correction!

I (finally) got around to fixing the license/licence typos. Thanks 
again Graham.

If you spot any other typos on REBOL.org, please report them in the 
Library group.
***

Incidently, I tend to use US english for webpages and British english 
for program code (variables, comments etc), so my code is littered 
with duplicate spellings: color/colour etc,

Hi,

I need another short advice :-)

do you prefer:


- directly accessible menu menu: http://www.creactive.cz/work/xidys/online/

or


- initially collapsed menu: http://www.creactive.cz/work/xidys/xidys_web_hp.jpg

   - with mouse-over effect: http://www.creactive.cz/work/xidys/xidys_web_hp2.jpg

   - and after clicking an item: http://www.creactive.cz/work/xidys/xidys_web_sec.jpg

(dis)advantages to both:


According to company working on our website, there is something like 
slight barrier, when user needs to click, and wait where the click 
does take him/her. According to them, users prefer scrolling. OTOH 
the menu can get long, and e.g. e-shop direct icon is not visible 
(nor is last section), and there is no easy other place, where to 
put such an icon (direct link).

thanks a lot :-)
-pekr-

Have you seen, what Jakob Nielsen say about menus?
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20011209.html
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001112.html

There are many good advise in his alertbox: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/

ok, thanks for links!

I definitely prefer all the info being visible on the page.

Expecting people to play hide and seek is good in games and some 
styles of websites. But if you are trying to make your site (and 
therefore your company's information) easily available, then don't 
hide links in any way.

OK ... what about the screen height problem? More so with new wide-screen 
LCDs? It is like 800pixels, minus Start bar, minus browser (app bar 
+ menu + toolbar + tabs), which usually lets you with something like 
500 - 600 pixels ... not all those menu will be visible then ... 
but ppl can scroll :-)

I prefere the directly accessible menu as well

ok, so far that seems to be option of circa 60% of ppl I asked :-) 
40% prefer partially collapsed aproach, and noone prefers pop-up 
menus :-)

No who says VID is missing menu? :-)

I expect, you will have some content on the page as well... so you 
will have to scroll down anyway.

The usual situation with limited screen height is to put all the 
vital stuff "above the fold" (it'sa  metaphor from the days of broadsheet 
newspapers)....The crucial stuff should be visible without scrolling 
(or mousing or hovering).

Yes, but then menu is too deep to be visible - and what in menu is, 
and what is not, - crucial :-)

or you can use mixed approach... if you are in some content section 
let only this section menu to be opened by default

but anyway.. in this case I would prefere the page you already have

It's trade-offs Petr!

Dropdown/pullout menus take less screen space but need more clicks, 
and may be less accessible.

Too many visible options on one screen make it difficult too see 
the important links.
Its not easy to get the balance right on the first try.

That's why usability testing is needed, and why usability consultants 
can make a good living.

Pekr, I prefer the expanded menu, immediately available. I don't 
care if it's two or three pages long. If the section titles are bolded 
(eg. "Internet a site", "Kiosky" etc.) and obvious, then reading 
them while scrolling down the page is no problem. And I think your 
search bar should go at the top, to solve the problem of being too 
far down to be visible initially.

OK, thanks for the input ... searbar will be probably removed ... 
there will not be enough content to search imo ....

I prefer direct e-shop link

later, if needed, it could be added to the top-right bar of the site 
....

yes, good position.

Max - re templating. Yes, I use "code", actually not code, just markers 
like <font face="Arial" size="2"><!--name-->ne<!--end--></font></td>

simply put, there is following workflow, similar to how Gabriele's 
Temple worked:

- browser requests page
- webservers takes .html
- then it sees, .html should go via some handler
- handler is called - so e.g. index.html is passed to pekr-rsp.r

- pekr-rsp.r, to save some processing time (prevent parsing), looks 
if .html page is registered as dynamic, non-dynamic .html is returned 
directly to browser - non-measurable slow-down

- if page is supposed to be dynamic, it is being parsed. It looks 
for marked sections and particular handlers are called, which know, 
how to treat that section

so, we can start with static page. Then we slowly turn it to dynamic. 
All my gfx man has to do is to later add some markers there. RSP 
ruins that aproach imo.

in order to work, I don't want my gfx man to play with any rebol/php 
code on his side ....

my aproach has some disadvantages too, e.g. remark can compose subpages, 
so you don't need e.g. to repeat footers, headers, etc.

remark MOD will allow all you are saying above  :-)  that's the point. 
 the advantage is that you can hide and integrate all those tricks 
on a programmable per site/ per page / per element .  since each 
tag receives the content its handling, if your outer tag can handle 
caching on the server side, well just do so.


remark changes HOW you can do your tags cause they are NESTED.  and 
can return dynamic stuff... not just html.

what I want to do is build a tag which caches its parsed data unless 
a trigger even occurs.   this would, for example allow you to cache 
parts of pages or whole pages... depending on where you put the <cache! 
> tag.

its not all done, but its the concept.

that will not work?

simply put - open your template in a browser - does it display its 
content flawlesly? (without interpretting templat). If not, than 
it is not what I want :-)

well, that will depend on what you mean by template and what your 
template contains... if you talk about a frame (or various sub parts 
of a page) which hold html, yes remark can have these with no remark 
tags within... so you can linkup an html page based on artists work, 
and add up your dynamically created content.  But remark even allows 
you to programatically include those little html parts at any level, 
so one of your dynamic tags could in fact be loading just menu titles 
which which your gfx artist created manually.  but their placement 
or the choice of which set to load would be controled within the 
dynamic tags.

max - simply put - what will any <cahe!> tag, which is NOT even paired, 
do, if you add it to html source, and you display it?

the cache! tag would be a wrapper you add to some "constructor" page.. 
the actual elements which compose your page, are still visible and 
useable directly.

remark has a way to add tags OVER your page so that your source remains 
unchanged... that is where you could put a complete page cache if 
you wished.

the cache is not yet done (cause it makes no sense in a static env)... 
but I count on trying to add it to the default toolset in remark 
v2

henrik... the shorthand for remark is rmk btw  ... I just realised 
that's your  initials    ;-)

hmk, not rmk, but close :-)

right... <sigh>  must be getting tired ;-)

I would like to resolve following situation:


- on our kiosk, we have following set-up - Apache running locally, 
and once Windows starts, it runs http://localhostin full screen.

- I wanted operator to have more easy life (not taking wireless keyboard 
each time), so I wrote View script, which sits in the memory, and 
waits for USB drive to appear. Then it copies new stuff from USB 
drive to C:\kiosk dir.


However - we found out, that the presentation still returns old pages. 
They seem to be cached somewhere. What should I do about it? Improve 
script to:

- restart presentation?
- restart Apache service?
- disable caching somehow?
- flush the IE cache somehow? (could take long)


And remember - the aim is for the operator to have seamless operation 
- plug-in USB disc, wait for update, unplug disk.

probably the best option is to disable the IE cache

Under IE7 the Temporary Internet Files control dialog, 
is now hidden under...

menu: tools/internet options
tab: General
section: Browsing history 
button: Settings

Disabing the cache via IE's settingsis simplest -- but you do need 
to remember to do it for each machine you set up / update / reinstall 
/ etc. Plus you may want to change browser later.

Another option is to send the HTTP headers to say the pages are not 
to be cached.

can I configure that with Apache somehow?

Never tried it that way myself (I always add headers in the CGI script).
This link suggests you can tweak your .htaccess to do it:

http://www.askapache.com/htaccess/using-http-headers-with-htaccess.html

If you make it all cgi, then your pages will never be cached.

That may be true for more intelligent browsers, Graham.
But, sadly, IE regularly caches pages with parameters.

Guys I have a short question: Is there a simple and fast way to avoid 
that a html-formular is position back to the top after a drop-down 
box has been selected which triggers a server call?

Robert, I believe there is an inherint post-back done by the drop-down 
selection, so the only way around this would be the use of AJAX. 
 I'm sure someone like Terry or any of the other web guru's around 
here will be able to confirm.