World: r3wp

Google maps

It's pretty the same with richtext. But it's a prototype in external 
.dll

Terry - we do understand your message, but imo rich-apps have their 
place :-) Browser UI's are terrible usability wise. But you may be 
right if you think that browsers become container (canvas :-) for 
various stuff. We should probably managed to get plug-in running 
anyway :-)

OK, so Microsoft is embracing AJAX (XMLHTTP, recently pushed strongly 
by Google’s Google Suggest and Google Maps) and they’re putting their 
own abstraction layer – codename “Atlas” – on top of it to make it 
even easier. But why is Charles Fitzgerald, MS’s general manager 
for platform technologies, saying “People who do (AJAX development) 
are rocket scientists
?"

At first I thought the plug-in was more or less useless... not anymore

Did I forget to mention that a Rebol/plugin will be made for Firefox 
?!

dunno - but AJAX is imo just proving the idea of rich apps we do 
have with Rebol. If not, they would be satisfied with browsers and 
few widgets as is :-)) So AJAX is just kind of rebol aproach inside 
browser. Let's make proper plugins, improve VID and bye bye AJAX 
:-)

DideC: no, that is complete news not mentioned by anyone .... where 
will that group be present? Because I have rather strong objection 
against route we took with plug-in ...

I do not agree to its design in some basic stage - like having only 
one plug-in per page etc. Other things have to be decided BEFORE 
development starts .... e.g. how will you configure it (Flash does 
so with right-mouse click), but rebol has legitimate usage for right-mouse 
click. Proxy detection was not correct and now there is a question, 
if we should go and tunnel network communication using networking 
available to browser or not ...

By having AJAX makes the need for a Rebol plugin LESS necessary. 
than if there was no AJAX.

It's a kind os scoop Carl give us at dinner. Very few people at the 
table.

I say exactly that - AJAX is just quick hack become overhyped and 
later on they will tell - you know - we know how to do things .... 
simply they go after creation of rich apps inside the browser, nothing 
more ...

os scoop?

But I think it's useless to ask "when", as usually.

os=of

DideC - was there any talk about VID and its redesign? It was mentioned 
several times here or there ...

Yes it was....

What had Carl in mind? We have just slides of his presentation, some 
mention of Confabulator, thousands of widgets, VID redone, top window 
transparency etc. Anything concrete?

- I have ask for a package of new and more advanced styles, based 
on the one already available from Cyphre, Romano, Amon, me... not 
sure it will happen.
- Some asked to replace VID by RebGUI (I'm not for that)

- Carl said that the question need reflection : can VID be reworked 
and enhanced, or should it be replace by RebGUI or something new. 
It still an open question.

My understanding of Carl speach is (but I could have misenderstood 
some things : not native english speaker) :

After what you say here I once again get impression, that nothing 
really concrete is in the pipeline :-) Just outlined questions, not 
even plan? :-)

- He want to grow the community x10
- Rebol and Altme will sort of merge into Rebol/Platform (?!)

- Coop and Altme 2.0 will be based on it (or are they the same thing 
?)

I have the same felling.

Carl's speach was not very clear to me, but again, it was my first 
hours of "full" english exchange. Wait for the video to be sure !!!!

felling=feeling

grr... if rebol and altme are to merge then the single point of failure 
model HAS to go.

you want multiple points of failure instead ? ;)

:-))

I want to only have myself to blame

Great, we can blame Tomc now :)

since my users will be blaming me anyway

:-))

Graham in a good mood? :-)

his  devcon drip has started... the seisures should end soon

I'm a feelin a better since I have managed to squash an annoying 
bug I created that occurred using BEER :)

What do you call a bug when using BEER?  A hangover.

:))

Terry. Enjoy the short window of opportunity that ajax gives. Only 
problem I see is that as the new wave of exploits and spyware are 
written around it, people will lock their browsers down even further... 
and it will be killed off. I give it 3 years.

The foundation of AJAX is XMLHttpRequest.. all that does is request 
(via GET or POST) some data without refreshing the page... no more 
dangerous than a URL redirection script.

It can be used in similar ways that cross-frame with cross domain 
posting used to be, and of course there are some nice third party 
cookie tricks too.

I'm not against AJAX, but I already deal with problems because some 
govt departments have locked down their users so hard that javascript 
is turned off.

we have flash to do this kind of things, with 97% of browsers enabled, 
any whay i guess there are many options why to focus just in ajax 
?

about the hype around rebcode, give me 10 reasons why this *MUST* 
to be ,1°  i would like to build my mp3 encoder in rebol ;-)

Q: Yeksoon asks "Reichart, there is a whole bunch of pple under Rebol 
SIG in QTask, .... are a lot of them working on QTask etc?"

A: Yes.



These are answers from Carl, Gab, Richard, etc. from the last day 
of the conference.  I sat them all down, with many others from the 
conference, and we reviewed and tried to lock down answers.



1) Will rich text and rebcode became part of all rebol distributions 
from now on?


A: Carl said "Once Rich Text and Recode are added (which was agreed 
on to be by Nov 14) ….yes."


2) we heard answer for async kernel in regards to LNS - some time 
ago Carl mentioned proper tasking or even timers could be added - 
is that anyhow realistic?
A: 


Carl said "Tasking is special, and is pushed off to Rebol version 
3."

No date has been set, but it will not be now


Carl said "Timers could be done now, and this could be done in a 
few months."


Carl wants more feedback that people "need" them.  So give him feedback. 
 This also goes to say we need a common place where we all (in the 
Rebol community) can create a complete list of what is wanted, and 
then "vote up" the things we want done first.  So RAMBO for now, 
perhaps Qtask soon, since it will have Voting.


3) I realized VitalNeeds removed all Rebol related info from their 
website - is the partnership lost?

A: Carl said "No, but they are talking…"

4) what will be the next focus of RT?

A: Carl said "Altissimo"


5) there was some talk about "rebuilding the team" - will RT employ/contract 
more developers?


A: Carl said "Yes, and we are doing , send in your Resume and show 
us your cool app you wrote that is as good as Canvas!"


6) some time ago Carl talked about opening some of rebol code - parts 
of View, console etc - will that happen? 


A: Carl said "Yes, this is happening and is happening in pieces. 
 The console is a good example.  Nothing would make us happier than 
having people make it better, and not have Rebol be the bottleneck."



6.2) Part of that plan was "Rebol as a library" IIRC - is that concept 
still valid? 


A: Carl said" It exists today!  Look in Windows directory for the 
DLL.  You can call it. More is being worked on. Talk to Jaime."


6. 3) What happened to /Platform vision? I was not present last year 
at Devcon, but my understanding was, that /Platform is about modularisation, 
language plug-ins were planned too ...


A: Carl said "Platform is being sold to Safeworlds…"  I will comment 
on this later.


7) not to mention BCD, rebin, RIF, of which only RIF was mentioned.


A: Carl said "We found another aprouch to BCD, so it was good we 
waited, Ladislav will be making this happen."



8) RAMBO is cool - but what about shared roadmap? I was contacted 
privately by one former Rebol developer, who felt Rebol plays on 
elite and that not knowing what is the plan for what product is really 
badly frustrating. Will RT create more SIGs, to fasten developments 
in certain areas? I talk about kernel areas, which general rebol 
user can not affect and waiting for enhancements can take years. 
Some ppl are already crying for better sound (if we want to use rebol 
for video-over-web for eg.)


A: Carl said using Sound as example "Sound: a good example of code 
Rebol plans to make open.  AGG for sound, would be perfect for Rebol. 
 I am more than happy to publish this info."

 


9) We heard about spreading rebol x-times. What is RT's vision of 
how to achieve this? Such claims should be supported by some more 
concrete plan? Is still outer world (development companies) interested 
in Rebol, so maybe more of VitalNeeds partnerships could come?


A: Carl said "This is complicated question…and answer.  My belief 
of the world is that application have to be simple to use, and to 
make.  That is what changes the future of computing.  So I see a 
world with thousands of developers, making all sorts of applications, 
with that it will grow faster than anything else that has been done."
 
10) What is Carl's preferred drink? :-)


A: Carl says "Non Alcoholic.  POG.   Otherwise…Vodka Martini, with 
Green Olive…very dry…(stuffed)"

From Yeksoon:


1. RT official statement on current products line like View, IOS 
etc?

Is it going to be replace by other range of products...support etc? 
How does moving 'beyond' View, IOS affect the current product offerings 
and hence the way alliance partners operates.


A: Carl says "Yes, we are going to move beyond, the new features 
WILL make this more usable and faster, and more open than in the 
past."



1.2: For partners like myself, who are on the alliance program, we 
would appreciate if RT works closer with us on their commercial offerings, 
roadmaps etc. We need such info to make decisions ...


A: Carl says "what we will be doing for Alliance, is help them move 
foreword on the new tech that is introduced, and with the minimum 
amount of effort."


2. How does the above decisions from RT leads to X% growth next year? 
Are there any change in the way business is done?


A: Carl says "Yes, it is going to change a lot, and this will happen 
over the next year.  This should bring you much better range of features, 
and enhanced as necessary by your teams."

may thanks reichart for this feed !

I have been on a plane for the past day.  Milan to Germany (two stops) 
then to USA.  A friend staying at my house was hit by a car riding 
my bike to the market.  Andthre was a huge fire just 1km from my 
Ranch.

I ned to get some sleep, I will be on tomorrow.  Answer more questions, 
etc.

Thank you for this informatin Reichart.  Was there any mention of 
mobile phone/pda development using REBOL?

Reichart, I thought you said you didn't need sleep!

ok then let him decompress

R: I hope your frirnds bike accident was not too serious