World: r3wp

Gabriele - certificates do not have ANYTHING in common with SSL. 
and not understanding its role is fatal mistake for any rebol security 
related role. I have to say it so strongly, as I do work in that 
area for last two years ... I am far from being expert here, but 
I have enought experience to back up my solution - forget Rebol, 
if you will not be able to work with certificates.

solution =  opinion

As for lns development, I did a small lns emulation a while back 
based on published info. I found writing a service was easy, I think 
Gabriele demonstrated this well. I concluded that lns was a great 
idea, but there will be a learning curve of course. Reqesting the 
service from the client is a one-liner, but that is only the beginning 
of the story. Aside from the careful thought required in designing 
a service API, it will be interesting to see how people structure 
their client code because I think that is where the complexity of 
lns development could be from a programming point of view (e.g dealing 
with the service response).  Of course it depends on the application.

Pekr: There are so many "standards" that can vary by country, govt 
and industry, or platform. Can you specify which certification methodology 
you mean? is it x.509 ?

Allen: so many? :-) Where? Yes, X.509 of course. Simply put, to be 
able to work with certificates in OS or to have own container. Every 
browser can do it. It has nothing to do with security itself, it 
is about identity. You can be secure as much as you want, but there 
are parties which will not talk to you, if your server/user/customer 
is not clearly identified ...

this is an area where I see Rebol, either built-in or as an third-party 
addon, needs to support 'standard'

yeksoon - mostly whole EU, e.g. to do electronic invoicing, needs 
qualitified (not even commercial) certificates produced by some reliable 
Certification Authority. What is more, such certificates do expire 
in one year. For such invoices to be valid, you need kind of "long-term 
archive", you need simply to re-sign them. So you typically go and 
use so called time-stamps (kind of certificates), provided by CA 
once again ....

Petr: i'm sorry, but it's you who are confusing certificates and 
SSL. there is absolutely nothing preventing you to parse certificate 
files, in any format; i really don't understand what kind of "support" 
do you need.

Gabriele - "LNS does not need to support "certificates" as it does 
not need SSL" - was was it me or you ;-)

In regards to SSL I only rephrased, that somehow by-the-way, there 
was once plan for better support even in that area - just look at 
the last paragraph of Command SSL doc :-)

And as for certificates - here we go once again - you have parser, 
you can study standards, you can implement everything yourself. Now 
I would like to remind you, that I am not here to actually come-up 
with some solution, especially in the case when I am not skilled 
enough to produce one myself, but I want to use some solution out-of-the-box.

It is all about - you can do it with rebol, or you can't. Talk "enablers" 
once again. Do you think that ppl look at tools to actually produce 
some support first, or they simply want to use it for the task given. 
One example - someone wants to use PostGress for e.g. Now he is looking 
for some tool, eventually likes rebol. There is a BIG difference 
if such person is about to just do %postgress-driver.r and connect 
and use it, or to actually spend months producing the driver on his/her 
own.

I mentioned certificates for two reasons here. 1) IIRC Holger (or 
someone from RT, do not remember right now) said, that internally 
Rebol has some parser for that, but the API for that is not exposed 
2) it seems to me, that there might be some parts of the world, where 
encryption is enough, and there is nothing bad with such opinion, 
in regards to such countries ...

Now let me explain 2):

We are one of the first companies here in CZ, who try to fully solve 
electronic invoicing. In order to not need a paper, our law (and 
many EU countries too), simply require usage of certificates. It 
has nothing to do with how secure your transfer is. Simply once financial 
institute clerk comes to our company, he wants to see original invoices. 
And so far, it is paper. And if it is e.g. PDF, it has to be signed, 
as the person will ask - how can I be sure, it comes from company 
XY? He can - he can check e-signature and time-stamps signatures 
and he can be sure, that 1) the invoice comes from company (identity) 
XY and that it was not later modified, or the e-signatures would 
be invalid ...

now to be more constructive - Gabriele, is there any chance, that 
if I write down my requirements, RT can outline how much would it 
cost to bring certificates to rebol? :-) I do not know how much, 
but maybe 1000 EUR could be spent by our company to have it available. 
It is not much, but l expect discount, if I let RT to provide result 
to the community :-)

I expect that in some way the code is inside already. The trouble 
also is with /Command. Today security should not be luxury but default. 
If I understand it correctly, even BEER uses cloaking in order for 
BEER to be usable by everyone. Now it is the question, if such certificate 
support would be available only to /Pro /Command and /SDK users, 
or ...

maybe I should post my request in RT Q&A group ...

Petr... I'm just saying that certificates have nothing to do with 
LNS, not that they should not be part of REBOL's SSL implementation.

about "I don't want to write it myself" - we're lucky that some of 
us don't think like that (i.e. nenad's mysql:// and so on...) :-) 
but anyway, if you need it, and are even ready to pay for it, i'm 
quite sure that you'll be able to find a rebol developer willing 
to do it for you... I can't speak for RT so I can't tell you if we 
are gonna do it or not; i think REBOL's SSL implementation needs 
this functionality, but there are so many things in the todo list...

Pekr: re Electronic Invoicing. We have a pretty simple system here 
call BPAY / View which allows invoices to appear inside the client 
internet banking. Supported by most of our large banks and used by 
councils, utility companies to do invoicing. A client just signs 
up to receive invoices in electronic format. http://www.bpay.com.au/viewbills/viewbills_qa.asp#qa151.

I cann't donwload the "Visit to Rome and Milan" video. I downloaded 
67% of it but now the client doen't reconnect to any peers. Is the 
tracker down?

What codecs do these videos need? None of them have any sound when 
I play them with Videolan - latest version.

trying to seed, may give 15k/sec

Colin - I don't know which the codec is but they play well with Quick 
time Player.

Volker - I can't still donwload. I think that I can reach you only 
thru the tracker.

i cant see peers to. hmm, have a firewall on. you too?

No, I don't. Apart for the personal firewall, but it is well configured 
since I already downloaded many videos.

hmm - my version complained about mpeg-4 support

wont play either.

Your version of what? QTPlayer or Videolan? I'm using QTPlayer 6.5.2, 
but I can not help you with Videolan I have never used it.

Does it work now? played a bit with options, now someone is downloading.

Now it works! Thank you

Colin: the audio is standard MPEG4 audio (aka AAC), but it looks 
like VLC does not like it in this case (64kbps mono). I've been told 
that some versions of VLC do play it, so maybe it's just a bug.

http://www.colellachiara.com/devcon05/videos/Discussionsand Banquet.mp4.torrent


(BitTorrent download. HTTP download will be available as soon as 
I finish uploading.) Play with QuickTime.

vlc 0.72 plays it - it's available in the section of older versions

Started BitTorrent client for few hours, so just who wants to download 
something, I have everything except the Banquet on my PC already 
...

vlc 0.8.2  1996-2005 - doesnt work, I''ll try an older version then

I wanted to say again how impressed I am with the quality of the 
DevCon, Gabrielle.  The 3-4 Meter screen, the quality of the presentations/speakers 
and what they said, and what the cameras caught...WOW.

Attending several Amiga Devcons gave me an addiction to new ideas, 
new technologis, and I think this year you blew all the records away. 
 I haven't watched everything yet, but everything so far looks like 
the best conference I have ever seen in my life.

It was pretty damn cool.  Everyone was really amazing.  These are 
all people I would enjoy hanging out with.

I should have noticed that I want 0.72 not 0.82 for these videos... 
 Grr.  Back to the download page...

Hm...  That's not working either...

That's funny.  Windows Media is playing it just fine.  I should have 
thought to try that first but I didn't think it would work.

Bummer. So you're saying that after my first REBOL Amigaish conference, 
things can only go downhill from here? :-/

why shoulda things go downhill? :-)

Because this one was the "best ever"

next year will be even better. by 2007 the world will be holding 
their breath, waiting for the latest news from Apple.. sorry, RT. 
:-)

by 2008: "Apple who?"

Oh, I thought Syllable ;-)