World: r3wp

have you tried Desktop/Rebol.com/Tools/Word-browser?

Organisation : it's already done!

The online (html but not uptodate) dictionary and the Rebol one (In 
desktop / Rebol.com / Tools / Word browser) have categories.

What do you mean by integrating Breeze from Rebol? btw - are Macromedia 
ppl aware of rebol at all? Or was it kind of  
re ...what?". Just curious ...."


Building a wrapper for Breeze so that it can be called.  You can 
treat Breeze like an API.
As to Rebol, yes, someone there knew of it.

I have played mostly with Core because I would like my things to 
run on my pocket pc also. I have written short little programs too, 
4 ou 5 liners, maybe 10 at the most. The thing is I still do not 
know enough to plan out a more involved application. I feel I have 
to learn a lot before knowing what is there to use for my project. 
= a lot of learning befoire getting down to writing.

But I'm willing to lauch View for the learning if it helps, of course.

And I wish there will a a view for the pocketpc one day :-)

How would I be notified to apply for the upcoming online class?

hmm, strange ... we all mostly complain on rebol docs, but as I think 
about it - there is plenty of docs, maybe not very well organised 
- just sort out - do you need gui? do you need networking? etc. .... 
rebol.com contains how-tos, Core user manual, reference to other 
docs ....

we all hope for the View for pocket pc with rebol 3.0 :-)

Yes Pekr, maybe it's all there, just not organised for the newcomer. 
I will keep that in mind as I forage trhu all the stuff. I'm pretty 
determined to become proficient.

how is that? Core Command View ... how-tos, cookbook, reference to 
outer docs - e.g. Viktor Pavls rebol-tutorial (iirc he is a teacher 
too or something like that ...)

I think of Rebol very differently than most people I assume, but 
I have created languages, so I look at them from the inside out.


To Rebol is a giant state-machine that operates on strings.  It is 
a statemachine because it "remembers" what you did to a string last.



Imagine if all you had was sets of strings: "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz" 
"1234567890" "one two three four" "name: Bob phone: 123-4567 Age: 
46"


Rebol tracks these strings, and keeps some overhead information for 
them such as where the current pointer (cursor) is in them.  That 
is about it.

Now, lets create 400 variations of string commands.


We will want a way to pull just the age out of that last string. 
 We create a word called "Select"  you pass Select a word (a substring) 
such as "age", and it return the next separate substring, in this 
case "46"


So there really are not 400 commands, actually there are more like 
5, and all these other commands are variations.

To Rebol
 should have "So Rebol"

There is nothing really to sign up for.  We plan to blast all these 
outlets (Web, here, etc), when we are ready to try this out.  We 
might do a small test with 10 to 20 of the old timers first just 
to see how it all works.

I don't think a good path to learning Rebol is the numerous examples 
and how-tos given. With each, you learn how to program the example 
shown, but they are of little help in helping create referents for 
the learner. One needs to grasp the overall "philosophy" of structure 
of the language at one point.

Ok, Reichart, this concept of Rebol as a giant state-machine helps. 
Only 5 basic instructions...? To identify some of these meta-functions 
would help.

Then, all the other 400 concrete functions could be related to these 
5 ou more proto-instructions. That would be one way of organising 
a learning schema for Rebol.

hmm, you said it is like lisp - so yes, it is so ... I explained 
to my friend, that everything is a series/block (strings in Reichart's 
post). And you have basic set of commands to operate on strings - 
insert, delete, change, append, remove, find, first ... tenth ....... 
and you have 'do to do the code ...

All languages are a giant state machine, as matter of fact all computing 
is. The basic op is NAND. ;-)

that is the set of proto functions - those string manipulation functions 
- you do use them everywhere ... even in graphics ... you have face, 
which has pane (container), and you insert, append, find, replace 
another gui elements, and then you call 'show ...

series and its operations everywhere ... that is how I would start 
....

denismx, are you new to programming?

Interesting, Pekr. I will keep that in mind when opening up the docs 
soon again.

No JaimeVargas. I teach programming to beginners (18 year old and 
+) in Science. I teach C++. A long time ago, I was a programmer: 
Cobol, RGP, assembler on the IBM 370.

Oh, and Fortran also.

Denis, I am not sure there is a shortcut to learning the philosophy 
or way of any language. A person simply has to read and write in 
that language a lot before the way is realised. Having said that, 
Carl Sassenrath wrote a long time ago a ten-point summary of rebol, 
which, being so short, had to be more philosophical, I think. Now 
to remember where that might be...

But, my skills are getting rusty.

For example:



Find | Select | Pick | First | Second | Third | Forth | Fifth | and 
Sixth are all really the same command:


If you picture a master command with lots of settings (refinements) 
and even some conditional code (if refinement set, do x).

Ok. So moslty imperative programming languages. To get the gist of 
rebol I think you need to study a bit of the functional approach.

But, ok, you are looking for good resources. Fair enough.

Anton, when you teach languages, you HAVE TO find the best way to 
do it. And there ARE bad ways...

well, I know and have written small programs in Prolog too.

All languages are a giant state machine, as matter of fact all computing 
is. The basic op is NAND. ;-)


True, in a Turning sort of way.  But I think Rebol is more so that 
C for example, where variables are forgotten, and functions tend 
not to have memory.

(Turing)

Sorry, Word nailed me with autospell.

I will recommend you read the PLT book, or the CTM Book. This introduce 
a lot of the concepts present in rebol, and you can get a sense on 
how to programm with series (lists), how to use func are as natural 
as integers, and how to drive your programs around the data structures, 
and not around the memory management.

Well, I was just saying that because I think rebol has turned out 
quite wordy, and evolving fast, so it's more like a natural language. 
The core natives, actions and ops are evolving more slowly than the 
mezzanine functions, though.

Important concepts in rebol:

There is not variables, there are just values, and symbols associated 
with the values.

So one aspect you can teach is the difference between op!s action!s 
and native!s  vs  function!s.

Ok Jaime. Not sure what PLT and CTM stand for though... Core Training 
Manual?

Yes, strange concept: variables != symbols

The values are typed, but you don't need to declare its type. The 
type is recognized at parsing time by the literal representation 
of the value, ie: 1 is integer!, #"a" is a char!, "hello" is a string!, 
1x1 is pair!, 1.1.1.2 is tuple! (not a struct!), etc.

very Logo like, Dennis

Hum, Logo like Rebol... yes, maybe. I see the similarity. But why 
is Logo so much easier to learn? I will think about that.

PLT Book == http://www.htdp.org/

CTM Book == http://www.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/

the one on htdp doesn't seem to be about Rebol...?

Carl Sassenrath said that the heart of rebol is in denotational semantics. 
So I went and started reading 
http://www.cis.ksu.edu/~schmidt/text/densem.html


and it is true, you can see and understand the roots of rebol better 
afterwards.

DrScheme?