World: r3wp

Technology and progress make far more jobs than they destroy.

sorry, the updates of Altme set the send-button back to return ....

Technology and progress make far more jobs than they destroy.

I don't think so. I don't see where this (mis-)conception comes from 
(as I have friends telling the same). Of course there will always 
be new technologies and these need people developing them and the 
like. But since we started the industrial revolution and especially 
since the information-age, people get (luckily) less and less important 
and needed. Also we just need so many programmers nowadays because 
the state of the industry is still in its infancy and there is still 
no real solution to the complexity problem very much apparent here. 
In a more ideal world there wouldn't even be so much progammers needed, 
just to fix bugs and do all kinds of things which should be automized.

In the past the majority of people fed themself. So many people were 
kind of self-employed, just to live. In the industrial age we still 
didn't have his much automation, so people were needed to fill this 
gap, even though they were getting more and more fed by less farmers. 
But this need for man-power is declining now, it's just not that 
obvious because there are so and so many countries where labor is 
still cheaper than the machines, but that's not gonna last.

Moving this convo to Chit Chat....

Firefox3: Web Apps Game changer. Firefox3 is going to deliver support 
for offline applications. http://www.drury.net.nz/2007/02/03/firefox3-web-apps-game-changer/

LWJGL - Java game library 1.0 released - http://www.lwjgl.org/

Remember PA Semi? The company has just released, as promised, its 
first chipset. "They are full 64-bit PPC, support virtualisation, 
and would do Alitvec but that name is copyrighted by Freescale. Instead 
they do 'VMA'. The three parts run at a max wattage of 25, 15 and 
10W for the 2.0, 1.5 and 1.0GHz parts respectively, with typical 
wattage listed at 13, 8 and 6W. The individual cores are said to 
have a 7W max and 4W typical power consumption at 2.0GHz." PA Semi 
was one of the prime reasons why Ars's John 'Hannibal' Stokes doubted 
Apple's reasoning for the switch to Intel.

http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=37426

https://jogl-demos.dev.java.net/- another java-opengl lib. with 
webstart and applet-demos.  Needs a little bit polishing, but i am 
not sure the flash-runtime has thatmch advantages.  Tested with firefox/linux.

It would be really nice to have possibility to interact with Rebol 
and hardware like in these java examples one day:) But the examples 
are quite huge. I have to download 7.7MB to see one demo. I'm looking 
forward, what it will do:)

all leads to the conclusion this will be possible (and possibly even 
easy :-) with R3

this  stuff was intended to come with the os. yourvendor choosed 
not to include it^^

vendor?

java should be part of the browser..

on the new computer. microsoft said  no AFAIK.

hm... It's not so impressive finally. I thought it will be faster.

runs ok here. At least it iis opengl

but i did not test with windows

I was running this one and it was slow - http://download.java.net/media/jogl/builds/archive/jsr-231-webstart-current/JRefractNoOGL.jnlp

well, space invaders didn't work on my machine  :-(

so much for java.

:]working here... and this one is quite fast:)

I noticed "NoOGL" in your url. ;) its slow heretoo. Where do you 
get  the link?

yes, that will be the reason. The link is from this page https://jogl-demos.dev.java.net/

imo java is fine. Otoh, Volker, I don't see the reason, why it should 
be included in OS by default. Who set it being a standard after all? 
Well, it is clear, that Java is a winner, even more so nowadays, 
as it is open sourced finally ...

The first link I posted yesterday, they offer what Chris(?) proposed 
to run View demos - not waiting for the plug-in - just let ppl install 
View and provide them with link, launching View, as much as Java 
WebStart does in combination with browser.

Because Java did enough marketing to convince everyone to put it 
 in the browser.

Java imo lost its browser position looong time ago. I remember few 
sites, trying to do JAVA menus etc. in JAVA, back in some 1998-2000? 
Man it was ugly, slow, most ppl hated it. Then JAVA departured from 
browser.

Java was made incompatible by MS. Flash had the luck to be a toy 
and a java-competitor, so MS loved it.

for interactive web experience, Flash stepped in, as there was also 
battle between java-script and jscript, incompatibilities, CSS was 
just starting, and no rebol plug-in around :-)

nowadays PCs are much faster, and JAVA is better too, and what is 
more - browsers are becoming kind of OS - container for various technologies. 
IMO JAVA can regain its position back, well, in some areas ....

Java is as much an alien application as java, degrading the browser 
to a render-box.

java ... java?

And the goodjvmswhere just starting. Supercede, MS own, borlands. 
Then MS changed their vm and ide a bit..

degrading the browser
 - why do you think that is a bad aproach?

Flash  is as much allien, sorry :)

Not bad. Its what  java  did, and would do as well now.

With a faster vm..

ah, now it makes sense. But imo there is nothing wrong with that 
kind of deployment. You know - ppl will probably not try to download 
View. But they could look and start to use it in a browser. And why? 
Because the deployment is easier and they believe the hype "you don't 
need anything else than a browser" :-)

Yes. But it was not "Flash stepped in", but  "java  was  kicked out" 
and  flash filled the gap.  Better Gui for designers for nimations 
too. But now its flash instaled everywhere, and people cringe to 
use it for serious  apps.

And  my sense  for fairness steps in andicry: "Wait! Wrong history!!" 
;)

yes, I know. IIRC it was MS who screwed, no? They created jvm with 
Win-only extensions .... They had the power to do so ...

ah, I have the same sense when thinking about the Amiga - it was 
much better OS imo too :-)

Few weeks ago I looked into some View demos, and I still think, that 
if we do it right, and even prepare those demos for plug-in, it still 
can influence some ppl ....

Yep. And a popular ide  which silently  used them. Good work, both 
vm and  ide. But  it worked not on the others. And  some things where 
 chngedfrom thestandard, so stuff fro other ideasdid not work well. 
of course every bug was javas  fault, not that  of MS.

Waht  we need is IOS without competing  with IOS..

IOS is no more supported

I asked Cindy, if I can sell my copy I did not manage to sell here. 
So, if anyone wants IOS cheapo, just contact me :-)

I think that Carl has the same idea - Altissimo - rebservices, plug-in 
or stand-alone client, small reblets ... could work ...

If  it gets ever implemented yes.