World: r3wp

yes, that will be the reason. The link is from this page https://jogl-demos.dev.java.net/

imo java is fine. Otoh, Volker, I don't see the reason, why it should 
be included in OS by default. Who set it being a standard after all? 
Well, it is clear, that Java is a winner, even more so nowadays, 
as it is open sourced finally ...

The first link I posted yesterday, they offer what Chris(?) proposed 
to run View demos - not waiting for the plug-in - just let ppl install 
View and provide them with link, launching View, as much as Java 
WebStart does in combination with browser.

Because Java did enough marketing to convince everyone to put it 
 in the browser.

Java imo lost its browser position looong time ago. I remember few 
sites, trying to do JAVA menus etc. in JAVA, back in some 1998-2000? 
Man it was ugly, slow, most ppl hated it. Then JAVA departured from 
browser.

Java was made incompatible by MS. Flash had the luck to be a toy 
and a java-competitor, so MS loved it.

for interactive web experience, Flash stepped in, as there was also 
battle between java-script and jscript, incompatibilities, CSS was 
just starting, and no rebol plug-in around :-)

nowadays PCs are much faster, and JAVA is better too, and what is 
more - browsers are becoming kind of OS - container for various technologies. 
IMO JAVA can regain its position back, well, in some areas ....

Java is as much an alien application as java, degrading the browser 
to a render-box.

java ... java?

And the goodjvmswhere just starting. Supercede, MS own, borlands. 
Then MS changed their vm and ide a bit..

degrading the browser
 - why do you think that is a bad aproach?

Flash  is as much allien, sorry :)

Not bad. Its what  java  did, and would do as well now.

With a faster vm..

ah, now it makes sense. But imo there is nothing wrong with that 
kind of deployment. You know - ppl will probably not try to download 
View. But they could look and start to use it in a browser. And why? 
Because the deployment is easier and they believe the hype "you don't 
need anything else than a browser" :-)

Yes. But it was not "Flash stepped in", but  "java  was  kicked out" 
and  flash filled the gap.  Better Gui for designers for nimations 
too. But now its flash instaled everywhere, and people cringe to 
use it for serious  apps.

And  my sense  for fairness steps in andicry: "Wait! Wrong history!!" 
;)

yes, I know. IIRC it was MS who screwed, no? They created jvm with 
Win-only extensions .... They had the power to do so ...

ah, I have the same sense when thinking about the Amiga - it was 
much better OS imo too :-)

Few weeks ago I looked into some View demos, and I still think, that 
if we do it right, and even prepare those demos for plug-in, it still 
can influence some ppl ....

Yep. And a popular ide  which silently  used them. Good work, both 
vm and  ide. But  it worked not on the others. And  some things where 
 chngedfrom thestandard, so stuff fro other ideasdid not work well. 
of course every bug was javas  fault, not that  of MS.

Waht  we need is IOS without competing  with IOS..

IOS is no more supported

I asked Cindy, if I can sell my copy I did not manage to sell here. 
So, if anyone wants IOS cheapo, just contact me :-)

I think that Carl has the same idea - Altissimo - rebservices, plug-in 
or stand-alone client, small reblets ... could work ...

If  it gets ever implemented yes.

Petr: IOS is no more supported is that official

Ifit works  seamless with apopular browser, like  flash etc, even 
more.

eh, probably not official ....

the  problem with  IOS is, it was the  right  library, and without 
it  rebol cant play  out its  real strength.

...it's just that we use IOS to support Rebol.org

And it cant be cloned becausethat would  hurt RT. Well, could be 
cloned, we are justto nice^^

IOS is nice ... imo we need R3 infastructure fast. We then need some 
C coders to take-over the open-sourced parts. As for a plug-in, browser 
support was good enough imo, but it did not support certificates, 
good installation/upgrade process etc.

Volker - if IOS is not supported, noone will care for cloning ...

For me the biggest problem with the plug-in is no access to the DOM

there is a way to call javascript, oristhatbroken? from thereto DOM 
the  browser. :)

But most people would say if I have to call JavaScript to access 
the DOM why bother with Rebol.

if i have  to write html to display something, why botherwith javascript?^^

Because whole your app is in rebol? I am not designing my app to 
navigate html, I want full View app, so what's with DOM :-)

that javascript can be build by a little library.

Peter wanted it^^

And for now  browsers have better layouting for text

so if you  are not thinking of a full View app, then what do you 
plan to use Rebol for? As an js replacement?

for the logicparts i  do now  on the server.

what  i would do now with a local webserver.

Yes I think I would prefer to be able to use Rebol instead of JavaScript 
for anything processor intensive.

/view could still do animations, menues and such.

say a reblet left or top, tabs, or text html, for painting /view.

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