World: r3wp

235 patents -- actually that's a claimed 235 violations: they might 
all be of the same patent.

Until MS names the patents and the infringing applications no one 
will know.


But MS probably don't know either -- Ballmer was quoting from a (non 
MS) report that said a survey of (some) open source code showed *no* 
(as in zero) violattions of any patent that had been tested in Court, 
and a possible 235 violations of _untested_ patents.

well, if they are going for it, who will they sue? and do they expect 
to make more than a few bucks on it?

they might even make more money, by persuading Linus Thorvalds to 
buy a copy of Vista Ultimate :-)

Statistically, I find it close to impossible to believe that no open 
source infringes on MS, to begin with.

Then there are patents from IBM, Oracle, etc. 


One has to either decide they are for patents or against them.  Once 
you have worked that out (sort of religion), then you can make all 
your other statements.

But MS is not the issue here.

LOL - Sometimes I see something that really takes me aback.  See 
Gabriele post the words "brainfuck" was one of those moments.  Then 
I realized it was a programming language.  : - )

:)

I am waiting for the intorudction of hosuehold-patents. that would 
mean a lot infirngers which cant defend^^

What is a house-hold patent?

Special unique clever ways of cooking, feeding childs and so on.

You never know if someone patented it..

And no money to challenge a claim

One patent I'd like to see some "spirit of common good" applied to 
is turning off the

mouse pointer when it approaches an active text cursor.  Apple wanted 
to charge

MS large for it (iirc).  So we all get to flick the mouse around 
every time we type in a

field.  It is a nice feature of the Mac...but come on...RSI and carpal 
tunnel for what?
A nah-nah-nah-nah-na between two rivals.

Maybe they can cirvcumvent it? DOnt hide, use alpha. But if people 
choose full alpha in the control-panel - well, they are doomed^^

I'm recommenting on Chat (not web)

Quad Core Chips...

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/05/14/tech-amdphenom-20070514.html

When do we get street level quantum computers?

Volker; Can Microsoft handle alpha?  giggle.  They caused me no end 
of grief with

transparency layers and .png files with IE.  I think it might seem 
a little beyond them.

I mean, maybe someone has the patent and they didn't want to infringe. 
 I'm trying

not to bad mouth anymore, man, it is working out to be harder than 
I first envisioned.


In tune with that, check out http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060513
Just to play fair.  Personally I love the Mac ads.

To be fair, yes, ads are subliminal, but that virus-thingy? They 
need two guys, one is Axtivex, the other Unix. ActiveX: "look at 
that cool link, my user will love if i execute it!" - Unix:  "DO 
you think? Shouldnt we ask the user first?" - ActiveX: "*sigh*, unix 
is so booring!". Mor eon the spot then that user-counting IMHO^^

Nany-style Person comes, "i am a virus-checker", and tries to carry 
ActiveX away. hard job^^

Have you had a chance to play in Vista yet?  Allow?...Is that you?...I've 
let someone

access the internet...  Very informative "pop-ups".  There I go trash 
talkin' again.  It is

funny, actually.  Maybe that's the point, to put some humour back 
in personal computing.

Gabriele, Shereman is not Rebol 1.0 it was writting after Joe left 
RT. It is a different language than rebol and it is no R1.0.

I am not arguing about the level of difficulty  that is involved 
on making a high level language or interpreter. You raise that point. 
I only claim that your dismisal of Scheme capabilities is baseless.

I don't use brainfuck, because I prefer Scheme. But I am not a religious 
follower that believes that my doctrine is the best and only one 
with certain capabilities. Your dismissal of Scheme sound like that 
rethoric.

I am know the shortcoming of scheme syntax, but I put with them in 
favor of having access to the source code, the ability to have clean 
semantics, the ability to have first-class closure, the hability 
of adding tasking with first-class continuations, and the ability 
of creating any syntax for my dialect using macros. Besides of having 
functional programming style that shields me from side effect and 
having to keep state or context in my head. For me those are more 
important than having a "nice syntax".

This are  the expresive capabilities that I like. But others here 
prefer a different set of expressive feature mainly based on syntax. 
Things like ports, vid, etc. Are not features of language imho. They 
are features of an OS or library. I do like the set that rebol offers, 
but such facilities exists in other languages thru modules or libraries. 
If we are going to compare the language based on their ecosystem 
then we need to count IDEs, Debugger, Profiler, Steppers and Library 
of Modules. But that is not as interesting conversation imo.

So simply claiming that you can't write REBOL in Scheme is irrational, 
because what then makes C so special, as REBOL is not written in 
REBOL. Putting up a *challenge* is childish and side-steps the issue. 
 That is why I resorted to Turing Completness as explanation.  The 
original issue was your dismisal of the power of Scheme macro system.

moving to "Rebol vs Scheme" group

Will Firefox 3 suffer from code bloat? - http://www.wired.com/software/coolapps/news/2007/05/firefox_bloat

ha! It seems to me, that they start to complain that the blame is 
on current trends of web development - that new web techniques do 
use lots of JS, all that ajax crap, glued together. Maybe, in the 
end, the world will appreciate lightweight things as rebol :-)

pekr, that's a good attack angle

well..webbrowsers have "none" vision....as do the browser developers... 
browsers are only products enhanced by the need started in 1994 but 
none of the current developers has asked himself "What does a browser 
actualy do/is for? And is the way we use the the medium (Internet) 
not a little outdated with the current browser?!?".. well with that 
mindset you endup with a product that is reinventing the wheel..and 
eventualy they developed themselfs away, just because the product 
became 1 out of many with nothing new.... Seems none of the current 
developers "Think's!" they all just do what they have learned in 
the classroom.. they all stick with Java C++ and .NET because they 
are told its "good"... (its not.. its clumpsy..big.. Over-orientated 
and eats 50 Gig of memory for a "hello world"... I hope they continue 
doing that ;-) that way Rebol has a real big advantage over the rest 
when they see they ended up at a deadend..

It's interesting to watch the evolution of browser technology. Originally 
the only purpose was to view documents with links (hyper-text). That's 
the main purpose of a browser. Then it was changed to do so many 
other things. Think of products outside the computer industry. What 
happens to products, that are changed to do more and other things, 
than was first the goal? Sometimes it may work, sometimes not.

How popular is Rebol in Japan?

<just tought I ask the question in this group>

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/05/18/microsoft-launches-popfly-mashup-app-creator-built-on-silverlight/

http://www.popfly.ms/

http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/05/state_of_the_co_10.html

hehe, REBOL is not listed even in irrelevant category ...

because there is no O'Reilly's Rebol related book?

echh... was looking on irrelevan language named Alice...

  <property name="brightness" class="java.lang.Double">1.0</property>

  <property name="range" class="java.lang.Double">256.0</property>

  <property name="constantAttenuation" class="java.lang.Double">1.0</property>

  <property name="linearAttenuation" class="java.lang.Double">0.0</property>

  <property name="quadraticAttenuation" class="java.lang.Double">0.0</property>

I buy computer related books only very rarely - they are mostly a 
bloat and I often have feeling that you don't get what you expected. 
I am ok with on-line resources most of the time ...

<property name="fillingStyle" class="edu.cmu.cs.stage3.alice.scenegraph.FillingStyle">edu.cmu.cs.stage3.alice.scenegraph.FillingStyle[SOLID]</property>

not a suprice you need books

nice "syntax" of the "language" :-)

I would refer to most of XML (tag based stuff) as insane brainfuck!

It is no more readably or maintainable without proper abstraction 
tools ...

http://www.hakia.com/

<searchengine without cookies>

looks nice btw... rebol is found.hehehe..

Mmmmm I over the river...Ill drop Google...

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070518124020691