World: r3wp

Have you had a chance to play in Vista yet?  Allow?...Is that you?...I've 
let someone

access the internet...  Very informative "pop-ups".  There I go trash 
talkin' again.  It is

funny, actually.  Maybe that's the point, to put some humour back 
in personal computing.

Gabriele, Shereman is not Rebol 1.0 it was writting after Joe left 
RT. It is a different language than rebol and it is no R1.0.

I am not arguing about the level of difficulty  that is involved 
on making a high level language or interpreter. You raise that point. 
I only claim that your dismisal of Scheme capabilities is baseless.

I don't use brainfuck, because I prefer Scheme. But I am not a religious 
follower that believes that my doctrine is the best and only one 
with certain capabilities. Your dismissal of Scheme sound like that 
rethoric.

I am know the shortcoming of scheme syntax, but I put with them in 
favor of having access to the source code, the ability to have clean 
semantics, the ability to have first-class closure, the hability 
of adding tasking with first-class continuations, and the ability 
of creating any syntax for my dialect using macros. Besides of having 
functional programming style that shields me from side effect and 
having to keep state or context in my head. For me those are more 
important than having a "nice syntax".

This are  the expresive capabilities that I like. But others here 
prefer a different set of expressive feature mainly based on syntax. 
Things like ports, vid, etc. Are not features of language imho. They 
are features of an OS or library. I do like the set that rebol offers, 
but such facilities exists in other languages thru modules or libraries. 
If we are going to compare the language based on their ecosystem 
then we need to count IDEs, Debugger, Profiler, Steppers and Library 
of Modules. But that is not as interesting conversation imo.

So simply claiming that you can't write REBOL in Scheme is irrational, 
because what then makes C so special, as REBOL is not written in 
REBOL. Putting up a *challenge* is childish and side-steps the issue. 
 That is why I resorted to Turing Completness as explanation.  The 
original issue was your dismisal of the power of Scheme macro system.

moving to "Rebol vs Scheme" group

Will Firefox 3 suffer from code bloat? - http://www.wired.com/software/coolapps/news/2007/05/firefox_bloat

ha! It seems to me, that they start to complain that the blame is 
on current trends of web development - that new web techniques do 
use lots of JS, all that ajax crap, glued together. Maybe, in the 
end, the world will appreciate lightweight things as rebol :-)

pekr, that's a good attack angle

well..webbrowsers have "none" vision....as do the browser developers... 
browsers are only products enhanced by the need started in 1994 but 
none of the current developers has asked himself "What does a browser 
actualy do/is for? And is the way we use the the medium (Internet) 
not a little outdated with the current browser?!?".. well with that 
mindset you endup with a product that is reinventing the wheel..and 
eventualy they developed themselfs away, just because the product 
became 1 out of many with nothing new.... Seems none of the current 
developers "Think's!" they all just do what they have learned in 
the classroom.. they all stick with Java C++ and .NET because they 
are told its "good"... (its not.. its clumpsy..big.. Over-orientated 
and eats 50 Gig of memory for a "hello world"... I hope they continue 
doing that ;-) that way Rebol has a real big advantage over the rest 
when they see they ended up at a deadend..

It's interesting to watch the evolution of browser technology. Originally 
the only purpose was to view documents with links (hyper-text). That's 
the main purpose of a browser. Then it was changed to do so many 
other things. Think of products outside the computer industry. What 
happens to products, that are changed to do more and other things, 
than was first the goal? Sometimes it may work, sometimes not.

How popular is Rebol in Japan?

<just tought I ask the question in this group>

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/05/18/microsoft-launches-popfly-mashup-app-creator-built-on-silverlight/

http://www.popfly.ms/

http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/05/state_of_the_co_10.html

hehe, REBOL is not listed even in irrelevant category ...

because there is no O'Reilly's Rebol related book?

echh... was looking on irrelevan language named Alice...

  <property name="brightness" class="java.lang.Double">1.0</property>

  <property name="range" class="java.lang.Double">256.0</property>

  <property name="constantAttenuation" class="java.lang.Double">1.0</property>

  <property name="linearAttenuation" class="java.lang.Double">0.0</property>

  <property name="quadraticAttenuation" class="java.lang.Double">0.0</property>

I buy computer related books only very rarely - they are mostly a 
bloat and I often have feeling that you don't get what you expected. 
I am ok with on-line resources most of the time ...

<property name="fillingStyle" class="edu.cmu.cs.stage3.alice.scenegraph.FillingStyle">edu.cmu.cs.stage3.alice.scenegraph.FillingStyle[SOLID]</property>

not a suprice you need books

nice "syntax" of the "language" :-)

I would refer to most of XML (tag based stuff) as insane brainfuck!

It is no more readably or maintainable without proper abstraction 
tools ...

http://www.hakia.com/

<searchengine without cookies>

looks nice btw... rebol is found.hehehe..

Mmmmm I over the river...Ill drop Google...

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070518124020691

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2007/05/the_seven_deadl.html

Gabriele;  <sarc> Why does everybody always gang up on Microsoft? 
</sarc>

Not directly a News but interesting: http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm
(Rebol is not listed).

I can't remember if this has been posted before.

REBOL's stay on Tiobe was very short:
http://www.reboltalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=212.0

Cool list.

So we've got competition - does it remind you of View/VID at least 
a bit? :-) https://openjfx.dev.java.net/Getting_Started_With_JavaFX.html
Now even I could code in JAVA, or so it seems :-)

That's sort of neat, I guess, although it's java and therefore is 
crap by default. :-)  I like how you can embed pieces of HTML in 
there.

I wondered about it too. Is it full html engine, or just some simplification? 
It lead me to question, that with rich-text, we could go for rebol 
browser :-)

But it really reminds me of View plus VID - being RT, I would sue 
SUN :-)

I wonder if you can do that in VID. shouldn't be too hard?

but the advantage of javaFX is that the implementation is complete. 
Tabs can exist in the forms you like and you don't have to code that 
from the bottom up, like you do in VID. this is part of the higher-level-than-VID 
I have been talking about.

the first text sampler window already goes way beyond what plain 
VID can do.

I don't understand - how tabs are more complete than those in RebGUI 
for e.g.?

well, then forget text - what's next?

show Gabriele the page. tell him that VID+ is not done until it can 
do what is shown on that page :-)

I just don't understand, what you mean, that it is higher-level-than-VID 
.... if VID, or RebGUI has such style, how is FX more higher level? 
I can't see there any other level of abstraction, or am I missing 
something? I don't want to argue :-) I just want to better understand, 
what might FX provide us with, and what is lacking in View + VID/RebGUI 
.... (I mean other things than missing styles, or styles not being 
complete?)

pekr, the thing is, from what I can see, that for example when using 
tabs, you don't have to think about problems with many tabs, stacked 
tabs or tabs not placed on the top. You just drop it in and JavaFX 
will handle them properly, no matter what you do to them.

I see the code:

model.tabLayout = SCROLL;


and there you have a scrollable tab bar. That should be all you need 
to do.