World: r3wp

moving to "Rebol vs Scheme" group

Will Firefox 3 suffer from code bloat? - http://www.wired.com/software/coolapps/news/2007/05/firefox_bloat

ha! It seems to me, that they start to complain that the blame is 
on current trends of web development - that new web techniques do 
use lots of JS, all that ajax crap, glued together. Maybe, in the 
end, the world will appreciate lightweight things as rebol :-)

pekr, that's a good attack angle

well..webbrowsers have "none" vision....as do the browser developers... 
browsers are only products enhanced by the need started in 1994 but 
none of the current developers has asked himself "What does a browser 
actualy do/is for? And is the way we use the the medium (Internet) 
not a little outdated with the current browser?!?".. well with that 
mindset you endup with a product that is reinventing the wheel..and 
eventualy they developed themselfs away, just because the product 
became 1 out of many with nothing new.... Seems none of the current 
developers "Think's!" they all just do what they have learned in 
the classroom.. they all stick with Java C++ and .NET because they 
are told its "good"... (its not.. its clumpsy..big.. Over-orientated 
and eats 50 Gig of memory for a "hello world"... I hope they continue 
doing that ;-) that way Rebol has a real big advantage over the rest 
when they see they ended up at a deadend..

It's interesting to watch the evolution of browser technology. Originally 
the only purpose was to view documents with links (hyper-text). That's 
the main purpose of a browser. Then it was changed to do so many 
other things. Think of products outside the computer industry. What 
happens to products, that are changed to do more and other things, 
than was first the goal? Sometimes it may work, sometimes not.

How popular is Rebol in Japan?

<just tought I ask the question in this group>

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/05/18/microsoft-launches-popfly-mashup-app-creator-built-on-silverlight/

http://www.popfly.ms/

http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/05/state_of_the_co_10.html

hehe, REBOL is not listed even in irrelevant category ...

because there is no O'Reilly's Rebol related book?

echh... was looking on irrelevan language named Alice...

  <property name="brightness" class="java.lang.Double">1.0</property>

  <property name="range" class="java.lang.Double">256.0</property>

  <property name="constantAttenuation" class="java.lang.Double">1.0</property>

  <property name="linearAttenuation" class="java.lang.Double">0.0</property>

  <property name="quadraticAttenuation" class="java.lang.Double">0.0</property>

I buy computer related books only very rarely - they are mostly a 
bloat and I often have feeling that you don't get what you expected. 
I am ok with on-line resources most of the time ...

<property name="fillingStyle" class="edu.cmu.cs.stage3.alice.scenegraph.FillingStyle">edu.cmu.cs.stage3.alice.scenegraph.FillingStyle[SOLID]</property>

not a suprice you need books

nice "syntax" of the "language" :-)

I would refer to most of XML (tag based stuff) as insane brainfuck!

It is no more readably or maintainable without proper abstraction 
tools ...

http://www.hakia.com/

<searchengine without cookies>

looks nice btw... rebol is found.hehehe..

Mmmmm I over the river...Ill drop Google...

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070518124020691

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2007/05/the_seven_deadl.html

Gabriele;  <sarc> Why does everybody always gang up on Microsoft? 
</sarc>

Not directly a News but interesting: http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm
(Rebol is not listed).

I can't remember if this has been posted before.

REBOL's stay on Tiobe was very short:
http://www.reboltalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=212.0

Cool list.

So we've got competition - does it remind you of View/VID at least 
a bit? :-) https://openjfx.dev.java.net/Getting_Started_With_JavaFX.html
Now even I could code in JAVA, or so it seems :-)

That's sort of neat, I guess, although it's java and therefore is 
crap by default. :-)  I like how you can embed pieces of HTML in 
there.

I wondered about it too. Is it full html engine, or just some simplification? 
It lead me to question, that with rich-text, we could go for rebol 
browser :-)

But it really reminds me of View plus VID - being RT, I would sue 
SUN :-)

I wonder if you can do that in VID. shouldn't be too hard?

but the advantage of javaFX is that the implementation is complete. 
Tabs can exist in the forms you like and you don't have to code that 
from the bottom up, like you do in VID. this is part of the higher-level-than-VID 
I have been talking about.

the first text sampler window already goes way beyond what plain 
VID can do.

I don't understand - how tabs are more complete than those in RebGUI 
for e.g.?

well, then forget text - what's next?

show Gabriele the page. tell him that VID+ is not done until it can 
do what is shown on that page :-)

I just don't understand, what you mean, that it is higher-level-than-VID 
.... if VID, or RebGUI has such style, how is FX more higher level? 
I can't see there any other level of abstraction, or am I missing 
something? I don't want to argue :-) I just want to better understand, 
what might FX provide us with, and what is lacking in View + VID/RebGUI 
.... (I mean other things than missing styles, or styles not being 
complete?)

pekr, the thing is, from what I can see, that for example when using 
tabs, you don't have to think about problems with many tabs, stacked 
tabs or tabs not placed on the top. You just drop it in and JavaFX 
will handle them properly, no matter what you do to them.

I see the code:

model.tabLayout = SCROLL;


and there you have a scrollable tab bar. That should be all you need 
to do.

ah, but that is ONLY problem of style itself, not of the aproach 
taken? Well then, Cyphre added arrows to scroll tabs to his style 
in 1 day ;-)

that is good, now we need that in the default VID+ :-)

it's the same with LIST-VIEW. people use it, because it's full of 
features and you can code pretty powerful stuff in a few lines of 
code. although I don't consider LIST-VIEW to be a higher level thing, 
but a vital and necessary part of VID.

yes, that is OK, as now I understand what you mean. I first thought, 
that you mean there is one level of abstraction upon what we can 
ever achieve with View plus VID, and it sounded strange to me, as 
I think, that if new VID is cute, we can build pretty much feature 
complete UIs ... well, the toughest part is, how to easily integrate 
some html container? We would have to link to some html runtime, 
if there is something like that ... and that would be probably a 
huge effort ...

I'm sorry, if I sounded confusing. :-)

Henrik - call me, when vertical scrolling comes to list-view land 
:-)

you were not confusing, my english knowledge is confusing :-)