World: r3wp

So, we need to encourage Orca is we want to see Rebol 3 progress

Commercial pressure appears to be very effective in prodding along 
Rebol development.

Maybe Orca should announce some feature, then it will appear in R3 
:-) I can see some Io inspiration :-) at least as far as even system 
is concerned - libevent is used for R3, or so I heard ...

pekr, yes, Carl is wisely quiet about such things

Time for Orca to annouce free ssl support

:-)) no you are talking, Graham :-)

Is Orca that far that it could handle that?

but Henrik is right - so far blog discussed only language related 
extensions, but not overall architecture .... I invited Carl to tell 
us more about View internals, open-sourcing model, modules, integration 
with externall world, language extensibility, etc.

When was R3 announced?

the start of development or the first mumblings?

I note Orca mailing list has 22 messages in March, and none in April.

dunno, but you may be right .... maybe Carl saw the situation, our 
requests, and knew that the only chance was much more than just incremental 
update ...

interesting speculations :)

If R3 is successfull, then I am satisfied ... but still ... Ruby 
is much larger community than us. I wonder if Gabriele plus few other 
contracted, can keep up .... still open sourcing to some extent may 
help .... but otoh I ma not sure, if some new quality developers 
would join. I prefer to have rebol extensible by 3rd party developers, 
rather than have it necessarily open sourced. But then I request 
RT to port it to new platforms fast enough ...

... well, but Carl said " I want rebol for my cell phone, and I want 
it now" ... so hopefully porting to new platform can happen at one 
week development at max ;-)

drrrrrrr ..... wake-up, pekr, wake-up :-)

I'd suspect he'd be going for making things as modularized as possible, 
make the core as small as possible so there is very little to port.

I love how much of Rebol is actually written in Rebol itself, but 
if that threshold can be lowered even further with rebcode, that 
will only make rebol even more portable.

the problem is that there is soo much to do. Rebol covers so much 
ground, there would be enough work for 30-40 top-skilled software 
engineers over the next 2-3 years working full time to cover everything. 
I would for example like to see just a bit of focus on the Word Browser, 
make it complete so you could add comments. It's hard because there 
are a 100 other things to do. It's like playing tennis and someone 
throws 50 balls at you. You'd need a really big racket.

Common Pekr, Have you seriously study any language besides Rebol.

You talk with property but then you are not able to produce any code

Ruby rocks and Rebol rocks and Scheme Rocks, and Orca Rocks.

Even Perl rocks, in the right context.

It is better to be a polyglot than succumb on the I don't understand 
that, so I will not use it, and by the way I will bash any other 
language that I don't  get.

Oh, and I've recently discovered that bash can be made to rock in 
its niche

On the other hand, if Pekr wants to be a Rebol wizard and specialize 
in that, it's his privilege to do so..

I do believe that the competition is great, and by the way for a 
much as I love Rebol. I don't see the like the ultimate end of computer 
science,, as matter of fact I see some drastic limitations like Rebol 
can't bootstrap Rebol, because rebol is not compilable.

Yes, Pekr should become a Rebol wizards and demostrate so. Instead 
of talking with property about other languages.

I'll agree with that :)

Ruby and Rails both are making a lot money for some people. How many 
Pro-Applications makin $$$$$ does rebol has. And I mean public knowledge 
not embedded internal projects?

Internal projects should count. Ruby's first major US user was NOAA, 
I think.

My knowledge of this is IOS and QTask. I don't know how much IOS 
produce, but I believe Qtask or more specifically Quilts will make 
a lot of money.

But I am diverging. I will repeat it Rails phylosophy of pragmatism 
and convention before configuration or reinvention is great; and 
the 10 min tuturials are true, becoming and medium level usert takes 
one or two weeks, and with medium-level user you are already programming 
lots of great things.

With abstractions, unit-testing, versioning, environment scoping 
(development, testing, production), autodomentation, portability, 
compatibility (any SQL db here), etc. Rails rocks.

Yeah, I can do a lot of  this with Rebol, but I will spend more than 
10 minutes to have basic CRUD (Create, Read, Update, Destroy) code, 
and much more it I want all of the rest.

Jaime - you never so my code, so don't try to pretend I am not able 
to code. That I don't produce any code does not mean I am not able 
to. I have different orientation at my current job, that is all. 
And of course, I am really not a good coder to provide code of Cyphre 
level quality.

Jaime-  I don't by typical crap what you try to suggest here. So 
typical - even Carl used it - show some code, or shut-up - like there 
are no other important project areas needed.

such attitude just show me some elitist aproach ....

but I have enough of commone sense, being productive historically 
in 5 or 6 languages (producing some real life apps), that I can judge, 
even with limited understanding, what is good for me and why. I just 
tried to say, that Ruby does NOT attract me, I would better use Python, 
which I like better.

and really no - I don't judge language by ability to make money, 
nor if it has some killer app available - because that fact itself 
does not help me to better master such language.

I did not bashed Ruby, but exactly the same nonsense attitude some 
guys are showing over the net. Noone would bark at Ruby, if Rails 
would not exist. Now quite opposite - I can see some of my friends 
talking Ruby as a cool language, because it has Rails, while asking 
them for some language details, they are NOT able to provide any.

Not compilable - thats no showstopper for bootstrap. Both forth and 
squeak can do it. Needs restrictions while bootstrapping, but is 
possible. Should be possible in rebol too.

Talking of rails .. I've got a dvd player (Sony) where the sled has 
jumped the rails :(  Anyone have a link on how to fix these things?

Typical cruddy design where an expensive player depends on some cheap 
plastic.

Pekr, I am not being elitis, I just think your comments are off place. 
If you can not learn a language doesn't mean the language is bad. 
Ruby is a great language and the fact that it has rails, gems, rake, 
and some many other modules makes it great. By great I mean that 
it enhance productivity.

How many times has Rebol send you in loopholes, because a feature 
doesn't exist like certificates, one that you request every so often. 
That is a productivity problem, one that a large community addresses 
quickly.

So I don't say that rebol is bad. I just said that Rails is good 
and very good for Web2.0.

And Rebol is very good a creating dialects.

Each has its niche.

Volker compilation of rebol is due to context free grammars. If you 
take this restriction you could probably have a bootstrap of rebol. 
But you can not compile just any rebol program. So this is a problem.