World: r3wp
[!REBOL3-OLD1]
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Anton 15-Feb-2009 [11385] | Hmm. Using SKIP would be like using GOTO. The trouble it's trying to avoid is having lots of dummy empty brackets, of course - a noble goal. It would be better to simply use a name-reference (keeping in mind that these are now, in Rebol 3, local to the window context), for jumping across a (possibly varying, during code maintenance) number of empty action placeholders. |
Graham 15-Feb-2009 [11386x3] | or, how about actions [ label [ ] panel [] ] |
so we can assign by type | |
now we don't have to keep the actions in order unless there are more than one of the same type | |
Anton 15-Feb-2009 [11389x2] | view [ ; Structure label "hello" text-area my-text-list: text-list code-area actions [ my-text-list [ set-face ... ] ; <--- action for my-text-list [ ] ; <-- action for code-area ] ] |
So, above, during code maintenance any number of extra fields can be inserted before my-text-list and it won't affect the actions assignment. | |
Graham 15-Feb-2009 [11391x2] | view [ ; Structure label "hello" text-area my-text-list: text-list code-area actions [ text-list [ set-face ... ] ; <--- action for my-text-list ] ] |
there's only one text-list in the window | |
Anton 15-Feb-2009 [11393x2] | There can be an overlap in names, so we have to deal with this possible ambiguity: view [ text-list: text-list ; <--- TEXT-LIST #1 text-list ; <--------- TEXT-LIST #2 ] |
Where the name-reference is the same as the element type (text-list). | |
Graham 15-Feb-2009 [11395x2] | we could just use order ... and not names |
actions [ text-list [ [ text list 1 ] [ text-list 2 ] ] ] | |
Anton 15-Feb-2009 [11397] | Perhaps lit-words could be used to indicate that it's a type, eg: actions [ 'text-list [ set-face ... ] ; <-- Action for all text-lists in the window. ] |
Graham 15-Feb-2009 [11398] | this would allow code reuse |
Anton 15-Feb-2009 [11399] | (Ugh... the sight of hard-coded numbers make me a bit queasy...) |
Graham 15-Feb-2009 [11400x2] | the numbers aren't there ... |
just using the order in the block | |
Anton 15-Feb-2009 [11402x2] | oh |
so you meant: actions [ text-list [ [ ... ] ; <-- action for the first text-list [ ... ] ; <-- action for the second text-list ] ] | |
Graham 15-Feb-2009 [11404] | yes |
Anton 15-Feb-2009 [11405x3] | Not bad. |
And lit-words ? Another idea might to use them to identify the name-references (not the element types). eg | |
view [ ; Structure text-list: text-list ; <-- Named text-list. text-list ; <-- Anonymous text-list. actions [ text-list [ [ ... ] ; <-- Action for first text-list [ ... ] ; <-- Action for second text-list ] 'text-list [ ... ] ; <-- Action for the specifically named text-list, 'text-list. ] ] | |
Graham 15-Feb-2009 [11408] | the big question ... will this make making gui's harder or not? |
Anton 15-Feb-2009 [11409x3] | Well, why are Unobtrusive Javascript people doing it ? |
For quick little layouts we can see that the separation, with all those extra nested brackets and interpretation requires extra effort. But for large, complex layouts, the separation must have some benefit. | |
(<--- insert benefit here..) | |
Graham 15-Feb-2009 [11412x2] | I have lots of complex layouts ... so I think it will help. |
Only way to find out is to test it though. | |
Anton 15-Feb-2009 [11414x2] | I think it makes things harder, at least for a short while. After that I cannot see... |
The reason is that there is an extra name reference needed to associate the action to its element, because they are now separated. In large layouts, the separation of structure and behaviour puts these closely related aspects further apart, so it means more scrolling. | |
Graham 15-Feb-2009 [11416] | Except that the structure is now much smaller without all the behavior code mixed in .. so it's less scrolling :) |
Anton 15-Feb-2009 [11417x2] | That's true, if you *just* want to look at structure. |
But what makes "structure" an aspect that deserves such attention ? It's still not clear to me. | |
Graham 15-Feb-2009 [11419] | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtrusive_Javascript |
Anton 15-Feb-2009 [11420] | I think other aspects of a program could be more important, at other times, or simply at different places in the code. :-/ |
Graham 15-Feb-2009 [11421x5] | The unobtrusive solution is to register the necessary event handlers programmatically, rather than inline. |
so, say you had a number of text-lists that all had the same event handler, you just define it once instead of 3 times | |
where number = 3 | |
for simple windows there is no gain. | |
It's only for large complex windows where the gains are seen. | |
Anton 15-Feb-2009 [11426] | Ah, that's why you mentioned stylize. |
Graham 15-Feb-2009 [11427] | It's a form of code factoring. |
Anton 15-Feb-2009 [11428] | It should be easy in rebol to define actions programmatically, or to make your own style of text-list before-hand. |
Graham 15-Feb-2009 [11429] | why not make it automated by default? |
Anton 15-Feb-2009 [11430x5] | Well.. why not? |
I note the Unobtrusive Javascript wikipedia article example sets up the "hundreds of .. date fields" with the same action. (Of course I understand they could be subtly different, determined programmatically, but still..) | |
This could be done in rebol better using stylize-like functionality. | |
I think we don't really have the problem that's being solved in that article example. | |
inline syntax prevents the registration of more than one event handler for the element's onchange event - we don't have this problem in rebol. It looks like they are working around a problem in html inline javascript specification. | |
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