World: r3wp

... besides that, there also were some talks of R3 GUI generating 
some output to web .... we will see, where all this leads ...

I started by saying that I was reading about ujs ... and picked on 
aspect of it knowing full well that most of ujs did not apply

on => one

I know my own screens are horribly complex with all the code attached 
to buttons

And then I looked for R3G examples and did not see any separation 
there either. So, I asked ...

No need to reopen the discussion, but the thing you wanted was to 
separate gui description (elements and its placing, look) from the 
action code?

yes.

So, one person could design the gui, and another could design the 
functionality

I don't know any other system than web, which does it.

Which does what?

Separation of form from action.

form = presentation

are you saying that it's not necessary?

because noone else does it?

Absolutly not. I am just saying, that looking into Delphi, SAP, or 
other tools, which are used to build apps, it is not simply common 
methodology. Web came from presentations. Remember - some 5 - 7 years 
ago, some companies don't even allowed JS to be run. "Nowadays there 
is no web without JS" - remember that statement, as it is proof, 
the web is patched beast, not something very well thought out from 
the beginning ...

There is surely still time to talk about those things for R3 gui.

That's what we're doing :)

While basic concepts are in place, there still might be room to allow 
many things. R3 gui is really very flexible ...

And unfinished

Every thing in development is - unfinished ...

I merely offer my observation for discussion :)

I realize that Carl doesn't read this group ...

You will be able to post some notes via chat system. Dunno when we 
will be back to GUI though. RebDev aka DevBase is still not finished 
...

The R3 GUI does the separation of form and function better than Delphi 
(or even HTML/CSS/Javascript).

the chat system is too hard on my eyes :(

And Carl is currently busy generating R3 documentation.

When do new-users will be accepted inside the chat app in R3 ?

Carl is doing very good and needed infrastructure thing. I always 
support such things. Both DevBase and Docs are needed.

Kib2, likely when the chat server is finished being ported to R3 
on Linux. We were running into problems with Unicode user names on 
R2, since R2 can't do case-insensitive comparisons of Unicode strings, 
even when encoded in UTF-8.

BrianH: ok, thanks. What about  allowing ASCII chars in user names 
until it's really finished?

Nowadays there is no web without JS
 - I take it you are not:
- Blind
- Using a text-mode browser (similar constraints to blind)

- Running a safe browser (similar constraints to Firefox with the 
NoScript extension)

Of course there is the web without JS - otherwise "Unobtrusive Javascript" 
wouldn't be needed.

Don't forget: Running old or mobile hardware - JS sucks on those 
too.

Here's a non-contrived example for separating structure from form.

Kib2: Not my call, though I think chat could use better user management 
functions before we open it up again. We need to be able to *delete* 
users and all of their messages to deal with spammers - not just 
disable. We also need for the admin to be able to rename a user on 
request, to cut down on duplicate user accounts when users change 
their mind about their ID - we already have those.

At present I allow users to write a custom screen in RebGUI that 
loads into a tab.  Of course they can write as much REBOL code there 
as they want.  But it would be safer if they just wrote presentation 
layer stuff .. and let my program allow the appropriate functionality.

Of course I could write my own layout function and disable any Rebol 
actions ..

You can do that by disabling the DO action and just having the other 
actions, which *you* write. Your users will just do layouts, and 
your artist will do the styles.

The definition of actions is separate from their use. The users just 
specify the use.

BrainH: I insist - there is no web without JS :-) What you describe 
is anomalies :-)

Is the web patched or just evolving?

Yes, badly and slowly, respectively :(

Umm... one of the aims of Unobtrusive JS is to allow nonJS enabled 
browsers to work

Yup. The equivalent in the R3 GUI is to change the implementation 
of the actions.

Eg. if submitting a form, a JS enabled browser would see an acknowledgement 
in the div below the form, but a nonJS browser would be taken to 
a new page with the acknowledgement

Pekr, working for a web company, those "anomalies" are the bane of 
my existence :(

Does qtask.com work with JS disabled??

The mobile vversion does.

I wonder why there should be a problem to have decent JS engine for 
mobile platforms? Don't they have full browsers already?

Mostly not. Only a few new phones made in the last year come close.

iPhone??