World: r3wp

Don't forget: Running old or mobile hardware - JS sucks on those 
too.

Here's a non-contrived example for separating structure from form.

Kib2: Not my call, though I think chat could use better user management 
functions before we open it up again. We need to be able to *delete* 
users and all of their messages to deal with spammers - not just 
disable. We also need for the admin to be able to rename a user on 
request, to cut down on duplicate user accounts when users change 
their mind about their ID - we already have those.

At present I allow users to write a custom screen in RebGUI that 
loads into a tab.  Of course they can write as much REBOL code there 
as they want.  But it would be safer if they just wrote presentation 
layer stuff .. and let my program allow the appropriate functionality.

Of course I could write my own layout function and disable any Rebol 
actions ..

You can do that by disabling the DO action and just having the other 
actions, which *you* write. Your users will just do layouts, and 
your artist will do the styles.

The definition of actions is separate from their use. The users just 
specify the use.

BrainH: I insist - there is no web without JS :-) What you describe 
is anomalies :-)

Is the web patched or just evolving?

Yes, badly and slowly, respectively :(

Umm... one of the aims of Unobtrusive JS is to allow nonJS enabled 
browsers to work

Yup. The equivalent in the R3 GUI is to change the implementation 
of the actions.

Eg. if submitting a form, a JS enabled browser would see an acknowledgement 
in the div below the form, but a nonJS browser would be taken to 
a new page with the acknowledgement

Pekr, working for a web company, those "anomalies" are the bane of 
my existence :(

Does qtask.com work with JS disabled??

The mobile vversion does.

I wonder why there should be a problem to have decent JS engine for 
mobile platforms? Don't they have full browsers already?

Mostly not. Only a few new phones made in the last year come close.

iPhone??

Starting with Windows Mobile 6 (most smartphones run Windows Mobile) 
the browser is roughly comparable with IE6.

However, most phones in use are years old, and even most of tthe 
Windows Mobile ones aren't up to 6 yet.

The iPhone is a more popular new phone than any of the other new 
smartphones, but is still a tiny fraction when compared to *all* 
new smartphones, let alone the regular phones.

Time for everyone to update their phones then.

If they want the appropriate experience

Are you going to give me several hundred dollars? That is what it 
would take to just update *my* phone past WM6.

You should ask Reichart!

Or to buy an iPhone, which I can't use anyway because it has no keyboard 
- I can't use an onscreen keyboard (bad hands). I'm trying to limit 
what I ask Reichart for, and since my phone is representative of 
what the market has it would be good to keep using it.

Representative of the qtask users market or the cellphone market?

Both. Phones with good browsers are rare and it would cost many billions 
to change that.

The iPod Touch has sold well this Christmas. It's almost hardware 
equivalent to the iPhone, so the marketshare would cover that device 
as well.

Heh ... stimulate the economy though :)

This is a little off-topic for the group though :(

iPod Touch has internet connectivity?

oh yeah .. can it run R3 ? :)

Yes, wifi

No, license restrictions.

Apple won't let any interpreters on the iPhone/Touch except the JS 
interpreter in Safari, no other exceptions.

That's why the only alternative development platform fot the iPhone 
is based on Mono: ahead-of-time compilation with static linking.

Oh well, a R3 interpreter written in JS seems necessary then.

On my todo list.

R3 interpreter written in JS? :-) How fast it can be? Besides that 
- don't we have better job to do than to obey stupid Apple's licensing 
policy? Why not to use devices like HTC Touch Pro for e.g. then?

Pekr, Brian has a very very long todo list :)

IOT, he'll never get to it.

We offer a cool HTML only interface, this ensures we work woth almost 
everything (we call this Amish Quilt)
We plan to offer a step up which offers "some" JS"
Then there is Quilt (JS + HTML only).


Several people are not playing with iPhone only client applications 
that will interface to Qtask.

www.iqtask.com

Graham - the thing is, that when I proposed REBOL being ported to 
JAVA VM, to get to platforms where REBOL presence is lacking, the 
idea was dismissed and native port of REBOL proposed for target HW. 
Now just because of some licensing description we are about to port 
REBOL to even slower VM? Screw Apple then. In few months I buy HTC 
Touch Pro or Touch Diamond, Windows Mobile based phone. Then there 
is going to be Android phones (first on market is already here), 
Palm Treo, Linux based (Open Moko) - so, there are some choices out 
there ...

Java VM sounds good

Is there JAVA on iPhone? That could be an interim solution then ...

It can be done ...

But - the best aproach (because I don't believe someone will port 
REBOL neither to JS nor JAVA), is to imo do dual interface. One in 
VID, other one for web. We will see, how it could be automated.