World: r3wp

Eh, there is many docs written by Carl, that are forgotten. DocBase 
became a mess, it needs serious clean up (e.g. all docs about VID3 
should be removed, it confuses ppl). When I told to Carl, that we 
need release notes, he told me he needs to think about doc structure. 
So I pointed him to one year old Doc of his (earlier alphas) and 
he told me he forgot about the doc :-)

Henrik - wasn't there some test suite with earlier alphas?

Pekr, only the framework and a few smaller tests. That was when Carl 
was talking about how huge an undertaking these tests would be.

I still regard it being a good start for further test submissions 
...

What I mean is, let's take first point in Carl's list. Scanner bugs. 
Are there any? Is
--1:23

a bug? Yes, it is. I don't have time to find all these low level 
bugs, but it seems, I easily find some of them, when I start looking. 
So problem maybe is, that people are not looking, and Carl don't 
document, how people can look for these things. It's because the 
whole thing is closed to some degree.

Geomol, again, did you post that bug to Curecode? Did BrianH see 
it so he could prioritize it for Carl?

Ah, found it - http://www.rebol.net/r3blogs/0125.html

Nope, as I see it, there are so many bugs, that I would use all my 
time posting to Curecode. I don't have that time.

Geomol, then you are not beneficial to the R3 project!

I tried to post things, and I tried to help with priority (r3-status.r), 
but it's not used.

sorry, but it upsets me, because that's plain backwards and non-productive 
to not report these bugs.

I was, I am not much these days, because I've lost faith in the project. 
:-)

Then there's no point in continuing the conversation, is there?

I'm not backward. :-) Carl started with these low level tests. We 
should have stayed there, until the thing was stable. But Carl (and 
therefore others) moved on.

unreported bugs will remain unfixed. period.

Was the test framework ever published?

Henrik, I'm sharing my view in hope, it can bring R3 to a stable 
version across platforms at some time. I guess, I've made my point 
now.

unreported bugs will remain unfixed. period.


Reported bugs at low levels will also remain unfixed for years, it 
seems. That's one thing, I try to point out here.

Peter: it was published only for r3-alpha users ....

Geomol - I think that you actually don't care about R3 at all :-)

PeterWood, it was in r3-alpha AltME world. I'm not sure, if it's 
outside that place.

Reported bugs at low levels will also remain unfixed for years, it 
seems. That's one thing, I try to point out here.

oops

Reported bugs at low levels will also remain unfixed for years, it 
seems. That's one thing, I try to point out here.


And BrianH works with prioritizing bugs for Carl, which could be 
a reason why some bugs you see as important are not fixed.

Reported bugs at low levels will also remain unfixed for years, it 
seems. That's one thing, I try to point out here.

 - this is exactly the type of messages that upsets me, and probably 
 Henrik too :-) It looks almost childish, something like: I know there 
 are some bugs, I just can't remember what the bugs are, but even 
 if I did, I would not report them either, as I don't believe those 
 would get ever fixed :-)

And BrianH works with prioritizing bugs for Carl, which could be 
a reason why some bugs you see as important are not fixed.


Ok, maybe that prioritizing is whong then? I don't know. I only know, 
it has been going on for years now, and as I see it, it will continue 
for years.

Geomol, talk to BrianH with bugs you want fixed.

Where do I find those #60, #115 and #250 tickets? I can't see a bug-base 
in r3-alpha, just in terms of r3-gui, and those tickets don't match 
... are they in CureCode?

Pekr, look at the bugs in Curecode and look at the test priority 
list by Carl. The bugs are reported, and they are not fixed for years. 
And new low level bugs emerge now and then. My guess is, because 
they way, the whole thing is run. Work on all levels of the building 
at the same time. Not good.

pekr, the R3 bug database was moved to Curecode back in January. 
The R3 GUI bug database is not published, because the GUI is considered 
too alpha to keep a bug database for.

Geomol has to be someone else, probably Pekr. Maybe Pekr has stolen 
Geomols account here. Hmm, but then I should know about it. Hmm, 
but that would mean, that I have a schizophrenia :-)

Pekr, in r3-alpha, run files/Test-Cases/submitted/r3-status.r
In Curecode, search on those tickets.

Pekr, lol! :D

Cheer up, guys! You're hard working work-horses. I'm just loosing 
some faith in the project.

Henrik - then it is just a question of asking BrianH to raise its 
priority, no? The question is, if we are talking about bugs, which 
are holding us back?

Geomol, it just pisses me off when people won't report bugs for some 
twisted reason.

Geomol - never mind, some old ppl left, some are not so much active 
anymore, some new are popping up. You also maybe don't understand 
current Carl's plan, which might look chaotic, but under the surface, 
there is very concrete plan. E.g. - some really important functionality 
moved into mezzanine level (load, codec system), and there are being 
added strong enhancements, which much improve REBOL's low level reflectivity 
and correct behaviour. BrianH puts lots of his energy into it. This 
is all cool stuff, you would just have to stop be worried about Chat 
console :-)

I will report this then. I'm just trying to tell you, I find lots 
of bugs. I would need to not use R3 at all (or R2 for that matter), 
if I should report everything. I don't have the time. I try to report 
all the really low level ones, I find. I see no much point in reporting 
higher level bugs, because they often dissappear in system development, 
when the low level ones get fixed. In most cases, I write about the 
bugs here in AltME.

Carl does not monitor this Altme world for a long time already ...

Geomol - e.g. right now we are jumping to yet another topic - binary 
conversions. I think you might want to say something here :-)

That's fair enough. To make a bug report requires a substantial allocation 
of time and concentration. You have to check that it really is a 
bug and not a misunderstanding, that it isn't already reported, which 
requires searching through the database, and actually writing the 
bug ticket.

You also have to check that you have the latest version etc..

Oh, no, I already wrote the bug. :-)
Yes, it's a lot of work to report bugs.

New Ticket created with ID # 698

What frustrated me during all of R2 development was finding a bug 
that really threw a spanner into the works of some application I 
was making. I would report the bug, but it wouldn't be fixed for 
a long time, basically forcing me to abandon the application, or 
workaround in an extremely time-consuming and ultimately fragile 
way. What I would have liked was access to Rebol source code so I 
could just find the bug and fix it. The amount of work I put into 
workarounds... gee whiz.

For R3, I haven't gone to the same effort. I just don't want to go 
down that road again.

Having said that, it appears to me like R3 is steadily getting on 
its feet. If the linux rebol console can get some more user friendly 
features like arrow key history etc., for example, then that would 
make things easier. Only recently the scroll buffer was introduced, 
thankfully.

remember this group is web-public.

Good.

I really like what Maarten said.

Paul, I'm ok with this being public. It should be known, how different 
REBOL programmers should see the situation. New folks need to know, 
what they go into.

Ok, but don't complain when people don't embrace REBOL because they 
read comments like these on the internet.

Paul, those comments are everywhere, even on Carl's own blog, so 
I wouldn't bother concealing the state of R2 bugs.