World: r3wp

Gee, how is money datatype really important? I NEVER used such obscure 
datatype even in R2. How is that a show-stopper for you?

Gabriele - I am not sure it is about stuff being open sourced. Even 
open-sourced development needs some organisation. Carl is organising 
few ppl around him, who are willing to work on some things. Protocols 
are open-sourced, RebGUI is open sourced, yet such stuff waits for 
real gurus to work on them - both to improve and to fix them.

Money as a datatype is useful as it is implemented as a form of BCD 
-- hence more digits of precision:
http://www.rebol.net/r3blogs/0094.html

Money! datatype is required for business apps that need exact counting. 
Just try to write an application doing simple maths operations on 
dollars or euros and you'll  see that decimal! is not an option.

Sure - it is a known thing, but I would not call it being a show 
stopper. We haven't had this feature for 13 years, so why should 
it be important right now? And if there is a bug, just claim your 
interest and it might get fixed.

Talking about that : http://www.rebol.net/cgi-bin/rambo.r?id=4363
This one was a show-stopper for me recently. Seeing such bug scared 
me about using money! datatype in R2. I had to rewrote several parts 
of a customer product using integer!-based fixed precision instead, 
just to be sure that amounts in the product would be correct.

For me is R3's show-stopper missing hash! and still buggy map! which 
is supposed to replace hash! So I agree with Geomol, that the core 
bugs should be fixed before playing with the high level or new functionalities 
(like threads). But I'm not so pessimistic, the things move on. And 
I don't need R3 so much now. I can do what I do in R2.

It's clear, that most series related bugs are because of unfinished 
unicode implementation.

But I guess that Carl has some reasons why he does what he does.

As for bug #576 - I don't care if the currency prefix will not be 
there anymore... or do you really need it? You cannot do USD$1 + 
EUR$1 anyway.

John, some comments:

- Bug #60 is an error formatting bug, not a divide-by-zero bug. Low 
priority.

- Bug #115 is waiting for a decision. All waiting bugs are either 
waiting for a decision or for some other bug to get fxed. This particular 
bug is low-priority, because we have more important, lower-level 
things to worry about than another display bug.

- Bugs #250 and 576: The money! datatype has been completely rewritten, 
and currency hasn't been added to the new type yet. It is intended 
to have currency put back in it eventually, afaik. The math parts 
work though.

- Where's the CureCode ticket for that insert into issue! bug? This 
is the first I've heard of it. Submit a ticket if you think it's 
important.

- We haven't decided whether issue! will be a string type or a symbol 
type (I'm betting string), and it seems to have a few Unicode issues 
like the string! type does. The issue! type is low-priority compared 
to some other, more useful types, for now.

- I agree that bug #698 is high priority. Good catch - keep 'em coming.

You complain about building the building when the foundation hasn't 
been fixed yet, but the foundation is what we are working on now. 
We aren't working on money!, issue! and vector! yet because they 
aren't important yet. They will be later, though.

Oldes, every map! bug is marked as high or urgent priority - we actually 
need map! in current code.

not agree with that Brian, to me the vector! type is the most important 
new data-type.

I have lot of improvements  which could be done in my programs with 
the vectors

For the last few releases we have been working on stuff that is even 
more core than datatypes: Getting modules, LOAD, DO and codecs to 
work right. These are so low-level that even Unicode bugs are lower 
priority right now.

R3 may be a little weird, becuase you can have mezzanine code that 
is lower-level than native code.

By the way, almost all of the map! bugs were found by me while writing 
a single mezzanine function.

map! is just an optimized merge between blocks and objects, not so 
urgent to me.

But if you don't have vectors, some programs can't be done because 
of the memory overhead of other series in Rebol

Steeve, we are not at the stage of writing programs - we are still 
writing infrastructure. The infrastructure will need vectors, but 
right now it needs modules and codecs, security and such, which is 
what we are working on now.

i was battling with the map! data-type :-)

Oh, so was I. The map! type could be the greatest thing in R3, if 
it worked. That is why its bugs are high priority.

The vector! and money! types are going tro be important soon, but 
they have been put on hold for now while we work on lower-level stuff. 
I don't know if the issue! type will ever be important, but it will 
get fixed too (after the other string types).

For the modules i'm not sure, it's like all the other tickets about 
security issues, we don't need that now.

For example, the file port bug (file port, not usable when adding 
data) is more important than modules or protect stuffs.

if the most simple program can't be done what is the hurge to work 
on security stuffs

Steeve.. The problem with map! is, that there is no hash! so there 
is no fast lookup in R3 yet.. as at least for my purpose the map! 
does not work correctly: #397

Right now modules are more important, because without them we can't 
reorganize the code base to make development happen even quicker. 
We've done 15 alpha releases in the last 3 months - too slow :)

hash ? who uses that, it's quite rare to use that serie in programs

Also that it's not possible to use binary as a key in map!

BRianh that's more releases than whole R2 history ;:P

Oldes, #397 is high priority, and you need to add a ticket for the 
binary key bug.

Steeve.. I don't care if it's hash, map, list, block or object.. 
I need fast lookup for key-value pairs

map! internaly depends on hash! as far as i understand

Shadwolf, we had 3 releases over a two-day period last week - that's 
more like it :)

oldes parse ?

Brian.. I know, I don't complain at all.

map! is brand new. hash! is gone.

ok so hash! is gone perfect no one used it anyway

Shadwolf. No parse, I use hash tables in R2 for dictionaries.

even that's slow no ?

Much more faster than simple block.

The money!, function!, op!, word! and string! types are brand new 
too. No old code in them.

The object! type existed before, as the system/words object. The 
old R2 object! contexts are gone.

Sorry Brian.. it's already possible to use binary as a key in map! 
:)

Just not string! properly :(

I'll tell you, the only thing lower-level than code is code docs. 
I'm so glad Carl took some time to redo the manual :)

And the only thing more important to code organization than modules 
is a good developer communications infrastructure. It has been a 
real boon to have the new chat and DevBase.

Gabriele, a lot of the development process *is* open. Check chat/DevBase 
for details.

chat intergrated i found it complicated to use

And in case it isn't clear, I use R2 every day at work. And I find 
bugs in it pretty often too, and find its limitations frustrating. 
This is why I started the R2-Forward project - so I can write R2 
code with the new R3 functions.

Yes, chat is complex to use, though I find it more useful than AltME 
overall, even in text mode. When we get the GUI it won't even be 
harder to use. That's why we need modules - the code needs reorganization.