World: r3wp

R2 "incompleteness" in one of the major reasons why many initially 
love the language, but after they try to build a "serious" app, they 
discover that some things need to be fixed.

he actually said something much better... "we need to add native 
image manipulation functions"   :-)

I've also seen useful bits of R2 (in my opinion) be discarded as 
part of the R3 vision.
These things happen :-)

for me, R3 is a real attempt at delivering a finished product.  probably 
the first time since rebol's creation.

i made a script with R3 which vectorizes simple images (initialyy 
to build vectorial fonts usable with the draw dialect) 

I used a lot bitwise operators like OR and XOR on that images as 
a prefiltering process.
I can put in the te trash my work now.

you can talk to carl about the fact that you need them, in r3 chat. 
 I'm there yet but if you explain that you're doing worthwhile stuff, 
he might just  put them back... until the better funcs are put in 
place...

Steeve, cannot you just get the RGBA raw data and do the math on 
it instead of image directly? Also is your script available. I have 
own script for making vectorial fonts from bitmap but it works on 
black and white tracing (in rebcode)

bah... to be honest, i can do the job using another tricks, it will 
be less elegant...

Steeve, Carl knows exactly how to step on your toes, eh? :-)

or we will get "few powerful natives to manipulate image data directly".:-)

maybe your will be a case to put that higher in priority  ;-)

the question is when:-/

Oldes i used XOR operator on black and white images of letters to 
extract the contours

i can extract the contours with the graphic engine too, but then 
it's polluted with smouth corrections.

Steeve, did you catch where Carl said that those features would be 
better added as native functions, than as misdefined operators?

Never mind, that was already mentioned :)

For my revenge i posted a puzzle

Geez, who is Meijeru ?

I like Meijeru, someone who makes bug reports that we can fix or 
dismiss. Even the dismissed tickets serve as documentation. Thanks 
for commenting on some of those, Steeve - you put it better than 
I could. Meijeru reminds me of Steeve, circa 3 months ago :)

hehehe

BrianH: it is a strange situation - we are giving up on some "polymorphism", 
and replacing it with more functions to get the same reflectivity. 
No more first, second, third, etc. working on multiply types, but 
instead using values-of, words-of, etc.

the best testers are always those that don't know what they are doing.

I don't understand, why XOR and OR should be removed from functioning 
upon image datatype?

We got a lot of port! bugs fixed - and tickets usefully documented 
through their dismissal - thanks to Steeve.

Polymorphism only makes sense when the concepts correspond. What 
we are removing is false polymorphism.

Brian, Steeve mentioned that not all of vector bugs are fixed, is 
that correct? It would be probably good to fix them, no? :-) (well, 
if vectors have any role in new rebin/plugin/dll interface)

To be honest it's not frankly bugs but wishs

All of the vector bugs that were reported before the great vector 
rewrite are fixed. The new stuff, not yet.

like scalar math operations on vectors

There's a bug too, with mold of vectors.

are there any matrix operations for vectors?

in your dreams Maxim, only in your dreams...

Not yet. We're waiting to add that until we implement multidimensional 
vectors.

Same with Steeve's scalar math request.

multivectors? I am curious about its semantics ...

I can't feel there is any intention to add such feature for 3.0 :-)

can't or can ?

can't. It is not on R3.0 list of features, IIRC.

We aree also curious about the semantics of multidimensional vectors, 
which is why they aren't implemented yet.

I hope Brian may enter these features in Carl's brain, by force...

:-)

we need pekr to argue with carl too  ;-)

They are lower priority than security issues (the reason for the 
new reflection), multitasking (the reason for the new system), etc.

I think that you have to use my past aproach - to cry loud, to cry 
often, to cry on many places .....

My experience is, that Carl works in his own world, and it is good, 
we communicate with him via some "API" :-) E.g. I had to mention 
article about the need to use better timers (not done yet) for something 
like 3 or 4 times. Then, when I found the right time and his mood 
to actually look into it, I think that he agreed that there is better 
solution than what we now have ...

Brian: I think that tasking is not going in for 3.0

What we then had, or what we now have? He redid timers once already...

I think that we need - plugins, security, gfx, gui, few protocols 
(later some engine like cheyenne inside), well, we need many things. 
Also current implementation of codecs is absolutly useless, no concept, 
just a workaround ...

We needed the system object changes for modularity and security too. 
Once we clean up for those, multitasking won't be that hard.

BrainH: I'll point you to one article, wait a min., I need to find 
it. Actually - it was Cyphre who found it IIRC.

http://www.codeproject.com/KB/system/timers_intro.aspx


we imo need multimedia timers, definitely. So "small" change can 
make big difference. We don't ned to look pre W2K imo. And it is 
crazy that MS has all this mess in their API. The good thing is, 
that timers are host layer, so community can advance it ...