World: r3wp

If you say, that Carl should implement in R3 what clients want, then 
we as well might end-up with totally different R3 than we have :-)

as I said - you are free to do anything. What I want though, is at 
least one standard distro, even if being worse then external stuff. 
I don't want REBOL equivalent of KDE vs Gnome situation ...

... or MorphOS vs AmigaOS :-)

Python does very well and it has no native GUI.

I'm saying that I need to be able to get shit done.  :-)


as much as I like the community and would love to be paid to work 
on improving R3 and making the world a better place, REBOL is and 
will always be a tool.  my needs are not the same than yours, or 
Graham's or Carl's.

View/VID is not rebol.

If R3 has VID3 working, I'll probably use it for some projects... 
but when GLass will start to work (using OpenGL) then I'll probably 
never need VID anymore.  simply cause it'll do 5000 frames a second 
for my interfaces, including very advanced looks and next gen functionality 
like run-time interface manipulation by end-users.

graham, correct.

I hope there is no underlying assumption that a gui for R3 will make 
it hugely successful.

IMHO Extensions will allow it to be much more successfull than any 
GUI we add to R3.

Just let Henrik build a GUI for both R2 and R3 ...

and let Carl concentrate on finishing R3/core.

People forget that I chose REBOL a decade ago because it was the 
exact same design I had built as the language for the OS I have envisioned 
15 years ago.  


Now just about everything is in place for me to bring this vision 
to reality... finally.  (and not all of this is directly related 
to REBOL).

funny thing is that my project was initially called magma and rebol's 
original codename was lava and I wasn't aware of rebol until a few 
years into my design.  :-)

CGI mode runs on OS X. I ran the simple date & time test. I wouldn't 
say it works yet as the CGI environment variables (such as remote 
addr) don't seem to have been added yet.

They are passed to the process by the web server, if at all. Did 
you try GET-ENV ?

Not yet.

system/options/cgi isn't likely to be added to R3 - use GET-ENV instead.

get-env works okay for REMOTE_ADDR, thanks.

It must be just Windows that doesn't work. Or maybe just IIS - Apache 
might work on Windows.

Graham - how can you think that language itself, without any kind 
of killer app or niche area could be succesfull? If anything, View/VID 
is good attraction for MANY new potential newcomers. They will be 
hardly attracted by REBOL itself, mainly due its syntax difference 
to "more traditional" languages ...

Maxim: apart from LAVA, there was plan for MagmaOS, and it was official 
name chosen by Carl :-) Later on, Wildman name appeared ...

Name me any candidates for a killer app on vid now.

I can do se very easily, but I will revert - name me any candidate, 
which will attract millions, without the View/VID. Cheyenne? CureCode? 
Those are cool in itself, but how they will attract any new ppl to 
REBOL specifically?

I think they can because they can be almost zero setup ( well once 
doc fixes curecode's installation )

and vid ??

our killer app lays initially in plugin, and showing world few presentation, 
easy of gui creation, and some real service wrapping, doing a tour 
comparind sources. Wrap OSnews.com, when you post article there. 
Wrap gmail, or later on their Wave, and show the code difference, 
compare sizes, compare speed. And at the end of presentation do a 
bundle - show stand-alone app called gmail, not needing browser ...

I remember how we once tried to do similar stuff, just for the excercise 
purposes, wrapping SlashDot. There were 2-3 versions of GUI wrappers 
available.

I can show you my HTC mobile Youtube wrapper. An end up, much better 
organisation of space on cell phone, than going to browser.

And you constantly forget one thing - ppl are caught by eye candy, 
you can't fight it. Do the design right, and you might attract ppl 
more easily then you think.

I asked you for a candidate vid application ...

I don't understand, what is the fear about - noone is distracting 
Carl from Core work, by View/VID requests. Carl will be back to gui, 
once he feels Core is stable ...

And I just answered you above - can you read?

For me VID2 does not exist anymore ...

I mean existing ...

VID is now 8 years old now??

I talk about where to get in the future, why to look in the past? 
Because if you want to look into past, you might as well name all 
past RT's mistakes. And I say - why? R3 is the new start. It is REBOL 
which should have been here from the very beginning ...

... and? who cares ...

It was not pushed thru the right marketing channels ...

1) it was one of the first RIAs back in the time, where world did 
not even know, what the RIA is - typical Amiga syndrome - concept, 
which was not embraced back at that time 2) then it slept for way 
too long, allowing Runtime Revolution, Curl, Adobe Air, Silverlight 
to take the place.

So now is the time to add ourselves to the above family ...

Name me another tiny, streamlined browser plugin platform apart from 
Silverlight and Flash ... I have one for you - VID3.

Simply put -let ppl choose, where they want to go. Even today, request/question 
about browser plugin appeared on ML. Some ppl are interested, and 
that is important ....

I thought it was you who asked the question :)

Remember - somewhere in April GUI development was postponed. One 
of the reasons being me asking Carl to listen to the majority, which 
here requested Core work being done first.

No, it was Tim Johnson, he incorrectly understood, what Extensions 
mean, even if they were renemed from plugins to extensions, to avoid 
exactly such kind of confusion :-)

I was quite keen on the plugin .. I wrote a chat client, and a fax 
editor to run under the plugin.

but it was just one more unfinished product.

I think that in the end, browser-plugin will be opensourced. It is 
just small dll wrapper around NS plugin api (for all browsers except 
the MS ;-). I just remember, that we requested the ability to have 
multiple instances in one page, proper installation/update mechanism, 
and mainly - security. I still can't imagine, how it can be done 
in R3. BrianH surely keep an eye on security aspects, e.g. I doubt 
plugin will allow REBOL extensions, which might not be liked by ppl 
like Max :-)

Plug-in is our connection to the browser world. It makes ppl feel 
there is zero deployment needed, althought there is now certain propaganda 
going, which tries to dismiss even plugins ...

it should be the primary delivery mechanism