World: r3wp

Chris, we've been careful to make the interaction model of map! more 
like that of objects than series. You can't parse objects either.

Right, objects present a similar pain.  I know for the most part, 
you don't want to do this.  It's a very specific case - when 'parse 
into encounters a map, instead of returning false, it converts to 
a block and parses.  I don't see this as touching the way map! works 
at all, just parse - for those occasions where it'd be useful over 
an old-style workaround.

As I said, the main case use is serialising tree structures with 
mixed nesting.

Instead of alternating between parse/iteration, you can just use 
parse.

Well, the IF operation of PARSE was added exactly for that reason: 
to make alternating between PARSE and DO code easier :)

BrianH ...  it's like a "i don't kiss girls  cause i'm affraid" your 
comment about open sourcing ... sorry but when the language is open 
source and have apeal  it meet it's public ... And contributions 
rains...


So open the  source at least will have an educational purpose ... 
it's better to be able to refere directly to the content of the source 
code to extract replies to our asks than waiting endlessly answers 
from the main chief guru or ithe selected ones don't you think ?

it's better to be able to refere directly to the content of the source 
code to extract replies to our asks than waiting endlessly answers 
from the main chief guru or ithe selected ones don't you think ?

 - sounds quite childish, who asks you to wait for anything? I never 
 did, even when I was asked to by some like you. Some answers I wrote 
 in my articles actually cannot be found in the source code, how about 
 that?

those like me sounds insulting ... are you looking down to me ?

You are insulting me by saying "waiting endlessly answers from the 
main chief guru or ithe selected ones" - I repeat: never did and 
never felt like, but was asked to by some like you. You are even 
now trying to state I should, as I read, that is why you are like 
those who did before.

Shadwolf, all of my contributions to R3 and R2 have been in the open 
source portions, which is already a significant fraction of REBOL. 
This source has been open for a year at least, effectively. In that 
time, having the source open has brought the code contributions of 
a couple people. This is what I mean when I say that opening the 
source isn't some magic trick that will get you help.


In that same time period, the introduction of CureCode, R3 chat and 
DocBase have led to huge amounts of contributed help, more testers 
finding more bugs than we ever would have found without them. Those 
contributions have been extremely valuable. However, none of them 
were related to opening the source.


Now, I am all in favor of opening the source, but I am in favor of 
it for social, business and convenience reasons. I have no illusions 
that it will get more than a few people to contribute though. And 
read-only licenses are the worst of all, because anybody who wants 
to actually do anything with what they might learn from reading the 
code is usually legally prohibited from reading the code, to prevent 
accidental copyright infringement.

When the host code is opened, I will celebrate with the rest of you, 
particularly since it will allow a level of customization that SDK 
encappers could only dream of. I can only hope that it would bring 
useful contributions though, particularly in platform support.

perhaps it's a binary switch?

[post removed by library team. (sunanda)]

[post removed by library team. (sunanda)]

Dilemma there, because it should still be remembered.

R2 does not like it when the block under execution gets reallocated. 
I think that the same was true for PARSE. I don't remember about 
FOREACH etc.

Nenad, this group is web-public, so...

I don't know if you can really make something nasty happen out of 
this, though it cannot be excluded of course.

Gab, yes, I checked after posting...anyway I guess that people following 
AltMe channels are here, not sure there's much others following only 
on web and not having a account here.

same could be said for RAMBO :-)

I thought that RAMBO tickets wouldn't be indexed by search engines...after 
testing, it was a wrong assumption.

Anyway, I'm in favor of exposing flaws as long as they can be fixed 
by someone.

isn't this conversation indexed by search engines?

(i'm not saying it should be posted to rambo, i'm saying the cat 
may be out of the bag already. maybe a direct message to Carl would 
be a good idea, though i wouldn't hold my breath about R2 updates)

I think that Sunanda could be able to filter out Geomol's post and 
my reply from the web export.

I've notified Sunanda about that.

IIRC, BrianH is something like R2 release guru, we should ask him, 
maybe he has some special connection to Carl :-)

Or maybe its Carl's brain simulation is good enough to fix it. ;-)

ladyslave the main chief guru referes not to you in my mind i don't 
even knows who you damn are ...

the main chief guru in my mind it's carl the guy with all the answers 
and all the keys and keeping them for him ...

how do you want people to be more implicated in rebol VM  enhancement 
if  they can't learn from what already exists in it ... and once 
again i'm sorry but it's a mater of fact compared to public accessible 
open source VM  REbol is clandestine...  and what is the purpose 
to do a revolution that is kept in a bottle ...

ruby, perl, tcl/tk python are all doing now in days computing history 
where is rebol in this picture ?

and the problem is not R2  or R3  or R20 ... you see ... the matter 
of fact carl tomorow decide to stop rebol we are all fucked up ... 
Openning the source code of rebol is a way too write it in history 
many where the langage with close  source VM. No one now in days 
remember them and the only ones  getting all the attentions are the 
ones with GPL  like system

Shadwolf - answer just one question for me - how open-sourcing R3 
today helps to finish us the product? It does not. So please - save 
your open-source rants for future, once we are stable, once R3 is 
finally out there, then please ask Carl to reconsider the situation, 
maybe he will be willing to open-source REBOL, I don't know ...

Pekr open source or not open source is a long rate debat man it's 
been on the table since day 1 I met rebol 6 years ago and what i 
can see is that the rebol community is skrinking and not extending.

The trouble is, that you constantly repeat your point of view on 
all possible places, whereas we have more important things to do 
right now. REBOL should be open-sourced long time ago, or we should 
wait a bit for open-sourcing it in future. And open-sourcing host 
code is good for starters. Yes, we are slow, but we are getting there. 
Carl needs to finish Parse, then he is back to Extensions, which 
apparently are going to be used for Host code isolation. Once that 
is done, the code can be released.

Open sourcing product, which is still in alpha, undergoing structural 
changes, is not a good idea imo ...

Yes, REBOL community got shrinked. Because our only product is R2. 
And R2 is stagnating .... because most resources are now dedicated 
to R3, which is not production ready yet. Once in beta, or 3.0, we 
can start looking for new users, and we can start to reconsider to 
ask Carl to open-source Core. I see no point raising such questions 
nowadays. Let's wait half a year at least ....

Pekr for example by  solving directly the bugs instead of filling 
a bug track and than wait for example ... you still can document 
on a bug track what evolution you maid... The question is can carl 
work on all the topic related to rebol at the same time ? the answer 
is no. And until now carl take a topic enhance it correct the bug 
related to the new topic addition and then move on to the next topic 
.... i'm not sure that's the more efficient way

Shadwolf - you are most interested in View, no? All even system, 
all devices - file io, tcp, events, etc., everything View related, 
is going to be part of host code = open-sourced.

Shadwolf - what are you talking about? Just look at CureCode. CureCode 
is absolutly cool and it much helped to shape-up R3. We get 100 tickets 
implemented a month. That might be even more, than you might get 
with some even open-source systems. And you also make it sound, like 
there is no plan, whereas there is a concrete plan for beta - http://www.rebol.com/r3/project-plans.html
.... Carl even offered to wikify it, so that the community CAN influence 
release priorities ....

Pekr ... mainly cause i'm an idiot that doesn't understand how works 
parse ( in advanced mode.) that's the point you wanted me to go ??

Wrong i'm not interrested only in View or draw i made lot of kind 
of programs in rebol...

I think I have nothing more to say right now. Those who want to see 
the light at the end of the tunnel, start to see it, those who don't, 
- I am sorry for them :-)

I had no intention to go into Parse. My only note of Parse was, that 
it is the actually undergoing priority, and you can note the fact 
by looking into R3 Blog topics .....

...some people would love to make sure that there will be no more 
tunnels...

In fact - I am confused about what you actually want? What do you 
think Carl should work right now on?

Gabriele - if you find yourself in a tunnel (which is our situation), 
you first have to escape it ... which is what we try to do ...

Apart from that Shadwolf forgot, that it was not only Carl himself 
working on R3. It was also Ladislav, Cyphre, you (Gabriele), BrianH, 
although not all of you contributed at C level ...

ofcourse it is a priority to polish parse ... but the thing is only 
car can try new feature...  having opensource accessible to all mean 
alot of tries can be done and shown and that's better than the 1 
to  X  relation we have. Mainly and i'm not the only one to say it 
we propose alot of things but since we can't show them they are. 
what do i want is a rebol that evolve faster ... it's been 2 years 
since rebol 3  enhancement started we lost alot of time in futil 
consideration like how do we name that and how about changing the 
name of this ... and we skipped during a loooooooooong time the main 
topic ....

R3 initially was just a R2  version with UTF8  support ...