World: r3wp

since rebol will load files as UTF-8 by default code doesn't need 
it.

guys, please, we are in 2009... how is it possible you're still using 
latin1...

hum... cause everything I use is ascii or latin-1 ?

well, windows ANSI..

Even you live in 2009, most people are born in the last century.
And many recipes, are older than the people, 
at least the good ones. (recipes for cooking food I mean:)

..and sticking to the old ways means living with the old problems 
... like not knowing how to interprete characters properly ... like 
AlrME for example ... it assumes makes the assumption that all text 
in messages is encoded as though it was entered on your own machine. 
So messages from Mac users are incorrecly displayed on Windows machines 
and vice-versa.


For me, moving to utf-8 is a much easier problem to live with than 
not being able to properly share text across different platforms. 
It may be different for you.

REBOL3's philosophy should be simple: UTF-8 is default. Anything 
else is possible, but must be optionally selected.

Livnig with the old problems means knowing the old solutions.

Displaying text in windows is a different problem to loading programs.

By the way, Ticket #0000589  leads still to a crash, even it was 
set to build again.

build = built

re-open it.

Loading programs are not totally immune from encoding problems. An 
unlikely but possible example:

if name = "Ashley TrŸter" [print "Hello Ashley"]

Then I would prefer, that name and the string to compare have an 
unicode datatype, 
as in
>> type? name
== UTF-8.

if name = U8{Ashley ...

but utf-8 editors aren't rare nowadays, and using utf-8 sequences 
isn't hard... really, if you tuely want to keep using as ascii editor

tuely = truely

But they do not convert automatically ..

handling encoding is complex in any environment... I had a lot of 
"fun" handling encodings in php, which uses such a unicode datatype... 
its not really easier... cause you can't know by the text if its 
unicode or ascii or binary values unless you tell it to load a sequence 
of bytes AS one or the other.

with mashup software its even worse... when done improperly, you 
end up with data with multiple encodings in the same document .... 
and then all hell breaks loose  :-)

at least converging to utf-8, all scripts by all authors will work 
the same on all systems.

cause there is just ONE encoding.

but having some kind of default for read/write could be usefull, 
instead of having to add a refinement all the time, and force a script 
to expect a specific encoding.

then it would be easier to change it one place, do all I/O without 
the refinement.  and less work for another to change encoding for 
the whole app and having to put conditionals everytime we use read/write.

Max - so what is an easy solution for me, to load my local scripts 
on my local system, which contain czech alphabet signs > 127?

IIRC there was intended to have a header attribute specifying encodings 
for the script body...

don't know if its implemented or not.

I put a suggestion on the blog about allowing user-creating encoding 
maps... otherwise, you can load it as binary in R3 and just convert 
the czech chars to utf-8 multi-byte sequences and convert the binary 
to string using decode.

is the czech encoding the standard windows ansi  encoding?

Yes on Czach machines ..... I think its Windpws codepage 1250. I 
beleive the default codepage on most US machines is 1252 (MS's extended 
version of ISO-8859-1).

ok yeah a few different diacritics between those two encodings

how do you aproach the situation, if your script would contain two 
strings, in different encodings? Can it practicall happen?

R3 will interpret litteral strings and decode them using utf-8 (or 
the header encoding, if its supported) so in this case no.


but if the data is stored within binaries (equivalent to R2 which 
doesn't handle encoding) then, yes, since the binary represents the 
sequence of bytes not chars.


if you use a utf-8 editor, and type characters above 127 and look 
at them in  notepad, you will then see the UTF-8 byte sequences (which 
will look like garbled text, obviously).

Is there utf-8 version of notepad? :-)

I don't know if R3 has a way of specifying the encoding litterally... 
like  UTF8{}  UTF16{}  or WIN1252{} ... this would be nice.

A script cpud have two different encodings if differenlty encoded 
files were included. For example, you could use a script from Rebol.org 
in one of your scripts. You probably use Windows Code Page 1250 but 
most scripts in the library use other encodings.


This doesn't give big problems as most of the code in the Library 
is "pure" ASCII

I use uedit which handles unicode natively when you want to... a 
lot of preferences for it ...

Notepad can apparently handle both UTF-8 and UTF-16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notepad_(Windows)

it tries to detect UTF based on text content... broken up until vista.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notepad_%28Windows%29

Ok, so... no one reads the wiki.  That's ok... we're all developers. 
We don't read things other than code.

So, here's a summary of R3 and Unicode:

http://www.rebol.net/r3blogs/0286.html

Max: maybe you should start using a real operating system. But, that 
aside, if you have any software that does not handle utf-8, simply 
trash it. guys, really, this is crazy, we are in 2009, let's put 
an end to this codepage crap!

sqlab: what you say would make some sense if converting files was 
in any way difficult. (apart from the fact that you should have stopped 
using latin1 almost 10 years ago...). I've been using utf-8 with 
R2 for years...

sqlab: rigth, let's make string handling MORE COMPLEX. we definitely 
need that. let's copy MySQL, shall we?

Max: a system wide default means that my script will NOT run in the 
same way on your system. that is the definition of bad language design.

Petr: notepad, as most windows stuff, uses utf-16. much easier to 
detect though, and R3 could do that (actually, didn't Carl just add 
that recently?) most "real" editors allow you to use whatever encoding 
you want, and definitely support utf-8.

Aha, I just realised that I have to use Save-as, and choose UTF-8 
or Unicode, instead of default ANSI preset of notepad

gab, having a system-wide option will allow people to use the same 
code for different encoded source data.  it doesn't break my code 
or yours.  its a setup not a definition.

i love that documentation on bitset http://rebol.com/r3/docs/datatypes/bitset.html
 -> I give it A+++ a you must read it documentation !!

CArl on french forum they are wating to now if you plan to bring 
rebol world to the modile phone 3 generation area ? (android windowsphone 
or iphone). Could be a good way to show that not only adobe flash 
can provide things  in that area i think. But they a special "set" 
of feature should be build in rebol to feet the particular need of 
those plateform. What do you thin about it Carl ?

this is what the host code is for.

carl T___T i read your documentation and post and all when i get 
some  free time to do it..