World: r3wp

for urls, I'll let you guys assess it... I'm the kind of guy that 
will do all with the string and just convert it to url at the end, 
 its just much more useable that way... you have a better control 
over stuff like "/" in the path anyways.

I think I'd look for at least the following behaviour:

	>> url::%23#
	== url::%23#
	>> join url:: "%23#"
	== url::%23#

 >> join url:: " " ; space is not in the uri spec, so could arguably 
 be converted
	== url:: 
	>> read url::%23# ; dependent on the scheme, I guess
	== "GET %23"


The problem with magic percent encoding is with the special characters. 
 As it is now, it is impossible (so far as I can ascertain) to build 
an http url that encodes special characters eg "#=&%" - Twitter being 
a great case where an encoded # is integral to the service.  Given 
though that the list of special characters is short and well defined, 
perhaps they could be the exception to a magic encoding rule.

I have noticed the new developments in specifying bitsets. The NOT 
feature is potentially useful but needs much more work. E.g. there 
is no way to programmatically find out that a bitset has been specified 
with NOT. Try the following code: 
>> equal? charset [" "] charset [not " "] 
== true

Besides a logic-valued function to determine if a bitset is specified 
wih NOT, one needs all functions (natives, actions) that work on 
bitsets to cater for the NOT-specification. So far, most of them 
plainly ignore this.

I think that you should CureCode it :-)

Brian... in how many places do I have to post it? Will a new place 
come out next here, and you'll tell me to make sure it's posted there?

We have to do percent decoding to read urls. The question is when.

 - The standard TELLS you when... my document too... but since everything 
 moves every few months, things get lost and forgotten. (besides, 
 it could have been fixed back then, so there would be no need to 
 worry about it now...)

next here

next here
 = "next year"

what moves?

There is CC for tickets, and there might be DocBase articles. One 
user "volunteered", reorganised it, and it got totally messy :-)

Then there is official R3 docs ....

BrianH: could you please look at my comment to #1343? :-)

what moves?


If you think, you might be able to figure out, which moves Gabriele 
talk about. (And you don't have to answer or comment this. Less noise 
and more thinking would be good for a change.)

I have Curecoded part of it in #1328. I would be so happy to believe 
that all of this is still coming. Brian/Carl?

Geomol - my question was rhetorical. I think I do understand what 
Gabriele means, I just don't agree with the outcome. There are clear 
places where to post, easy as that. It is a bit difficult sometimes 
to get Carl's attention, but 80 tickets a month get such an attention. 
The development process of R3 might look chaotic, jumping from one 
area to the other, but if we want, and we care, we know how to get 
such an attention. 


I for one asked Carl privately about your concern towards R3 speed 
in certain situations. And you know what? I got some answer too. 
I asked Carl to comment to your ticket, he did so. In few hours. 
You could do just the same, no? It is very easy to become a naysayer, 
to express some worries, etc., but other thing is to actaully act, 
not just talk, and then your saying applies - "less noise and more 
thinking (and acting) would be good for a change" :-)


.... and please - I think I don't need any guides on what should 
I comment, or not. But the fact is, that I don't want to let anyone 
to dismiss the hard work which is being put into R3. I don't care 
about myself at all, but I see it at least as dishonest to those, 
who really try to bring R3 out, and we have few such friends here 
...

BrianH: 'call in R3 is more low level, right? I would like to do 
following thing - I want to have few powerpoint presentations running 
in a loop. In R2, I could use call/wait, and once the presentation 
is finished, the console returned. In R3, there are no refinemenst 
as /wait, /output.


Is there any equivalence? Was R2 using "start" command in windows? 
I tried with "start", but got following error:

>> call "start /WAIT powerpnt /S test.ppt"

** Access error: external process failed: "Systém nemùže nalézt uvedený 
soubor.^
M^/"
** Where: call
** Near: call "start /WAIT powerpnt /S test.ppt"

hmm, even if I use: 

>> call "cmd /c start /WAIT powerpnt /S test.ppt"


... it behaves in an async manner. It is a bit difficult without 
some R2 features. I had another plan in mind - I still have some 
R2 wrapper for Win32API funcs like launching app, moving window, 
setting its position, finding window by name, etc. (it originated 
from Gregg's send-keys dialect). But with R3, we don't have DLL interface 
anymore.


Now I wonder, if I should write an extension, or there is some plan 
to adress #1223?


I can use R2 as an interim solution, just wondering which way we 
go in R3, in regards to 'call. If I should start to think Extension 
way, or wait for 'call being enhanced?

you mean you're going to use REBOL TWO?  why?  I thought we should 
all be using R3   ;-D

I plan to use R3. I defined what makes R3 beta a good release, and 
adressing 'call is one of those points. CGI/IO was already adressed.

Well, I need to calm down ... I am out of this place for some time 
....

Pekr, I did this interface some time ago. It is based on a previous 
implementation from J.F. Theis, and is implemented as a TCP-IP server. 
I will certainely make out of it an extension for R3, but it can 
be already be used either with R2 or R3 as soon as you are able to 
send TCP-IP commands. See http://colineau.societeg.com/rebol/r2win151.html
. Unfortunately, it seems that the host site is down right now. If 
the shutdown persists, I will put it  in some other place.

Gabriele, every time you mention a document or code that was posted 
somewhere two years ago, without providing a link, or stating which 
AltME world the file is in (with file name/path preferably), then 
it comes across as useless complaining. If you want something done, 
say so. If you want to say that you *already did something*, prove 
it. Show me. Complaints about a time before the restart of the R3 
project aren't relevant to the current project. Live in the now :)

The standard TELLS you when

 - No it doesn't. The standard doesn't cover R3 internals, not even 
 in a generic non-language-specific way. The "when" I was talking 
 about has nothing to do with the encoding itself - it has to do with 
 internal data formats.

As for where things go, we built places for such things (as mentioned 
above) and they haven't moved in a year.

wouldn't it make sense for TRIM/WITH to be able to use a bitset?

>> trim/with "abc" charset "ac"
** Script error: trim does not allow bitset! for its str argument

Today I have seen a Wii GUI in action. It has been designed to be 
used with a remote controller.
Also XBOX 360 and PS3 have been.

Interactive Boxes like Digital TV receiver, Mediacenters are designe 
to be used with a remote.

We are entering in an era where mouse and keyboard are no more the 
standard input methods.

To the designers of REBOL3 GUI please consider the new paradigms 
and provide different interaction methods:
- GUI to be used with REMOTE controllers and similar devices

- GUI to be used with the click of the mouse an keyboards and even 
pedals.

- GUI to be used with multi-gesture multipoint touches (either on 
big and small screens)

Animated transitions and some 3D are necessary for a modern GUI system.


GUIs are the basic instruments users interact s with our applications. 
If we give the feeling of a modern GUI 50% of our work has been done 
because they will feel the program to be modern and good, even if 
it isn't. really so.


Our customers are people: specialist and families like the one I 
have encountered this evening. They use Modern Touch based Cell Phones, 
MediaCenters, Remote Controllers and at the and Mouse and Keyboards.

Hope my observations helps.

This has been a very silent month for REBOL... probably a lot of 
things are underway.

Carl is furiously at work putting time on the host.  a lot of unglorified 
but required time.

once that is out the bag... I expect a lot will suddenly happen at 
once.

its "the deep breath before the plunge"  ;-)

A95 released with compiler optimizations.

I see a performance increase. R3 is faster than R2 in a few tests, 
I've done so far.

I tested this:
dt [a: 1. b: 2. loop 10000000 [a + b * a / b]]
and this:
do http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/rebol/r3/mandelbrot.r

Also
do http://www.rebol.com/speed.r
show an increase in REBOL-Hertz.

I get with R3 lower performance with Processor, Memory and Disk/File, 
just the value for Console is almost 500% increased

sqlab, did you upgrade to latest alpha 95?

Here is slight comparison with the latest R3 release:


I used this script identically for all tests: http://cyphre.mysteria.cz/tests/mandelbrot-int.r

results on AMD Athlon 1.4GHz, 1GB RAM:


REBOL2 partially JIT compiled version	 	0.471s      1.0   speed ratio
REBOL2 (REBOL/View 2.7.6.3.1 14-Mar-2008)	12.15s    25.8 x slower
REBOL3 (r3-a95.exe)					13.87s    29.45 x slower
REBOL3 (r3-a94.exe)					17.54s    37.24 x slower

yes, 
 Version:   2.100.95.3.1
 Build:     24-Nov-2009/6:42:02

msvcrtd.dll disabled

Hm, I need to test some more, I guess, because I initially see a 
speed increase, but your results show differently.

Same mandelbrot:
REBOL 2 ver. 2.7.6.3.1	9.35s
r3-a95.exe			7.521s


Results is from an Intel Pentium 4 CPU 2.80GHz running WinXP. Maybe 
R3 is compile optimized for intel CPUs?

sqlab, how do I check, if msvcrtd.dll is enabled/disabled?

just rename it or put it somewhere out of the search paths.
It was needed for the first a95 release with debug information.

Ok, got it. More info here:
http://www.rebol.net/cgi-bin/r3blog.r?view=0297#comments

Gabriele, is it possible to dispatch multiple request to wiki TCP 
examples "pong" server listening on single port? It should be possible 
but for me second request is without response until the first still 
open. Your HTTP scheme is too much complicated to me as lecture reading 
:). I've tried to transform rebol.org webserver to R3, I've got response, 
but seems to me useles to serve one and one only connection at time 
when the port is asynchronous by nature. Any hint?

We've been through this, but I still have to bring it up. "REBOL 
3 needs a new name"

A new name, a new beginning, and a new reputation.

What was the consensus last time? I still disagree about changing 
any names, btw.