World: r3wp

and and Amiga boing ball, official :-)

Ah, then you're in good company and doesn't need the security blanket 
so much. :-)

When I was doing Smalltalk+rules at  a .net Insurance firm in Cleveland 
 I had a lot of COBOL/DB2 folks my own age to kibbutz with ... in 
the midst of young people doing Javascript and C#.  So why not Rebol 
?

Could someone please ask Carl for the status update? I think that 
those not having access to alpha world are somehow excluded from 
being informed, I at least found the docs :-) Last blog is more than 
one month old. I think that at current stage ppl would more appreciate 
some table of features withcolumn showing estimated percentage of 
completness, than being embarged from any info on the development 
state.

I am not speaking for Rebol or Carl, but I do know that he and the 
team have been wonderfully busy, have been getting a LOT done, and 
they are very close to being complete.  Any snide comments will be 
rewarded with complete silence from me…

Reichart - your words about snideness are snide itself

I was taught, that the most important thing in managing things is 
to talk ... - communication

No Pekr, that is not snideness....there is no humour or sarcasm in 
my statement...

If you know how to correctly communicate thing, you may dare to even 
more pospone your products, and ppl will understand your reasoning. 
My opinion is, that historically, RT is not best at its communication. 
That is why they imo need marketing manager and why they are looking 
for one probably.

If there is no humor or sarkasm, then your statement prevents others 
from posting whatever they want, if they want to hear your reaction 
:-) One communication manager told me, that if ppl are prevented 
to speak as they feel, that is already sign of non-democratic aproach 
:-) That is not to your statement exactly, but in general. E.g. example 
- After 11/9, if you even dared to ask publicly - but was foreign 
policy of US correct? You were automatically accused of supporting 
terrorism. One guy was even brought to court, which dismissed the 
case as being paranoid :-)

So, now I know, that the team is close to release. Do other hundreds 
of rebollers who are not here know too?

And that was my point.

I think that asking for 1 blog per month is not that much, or is 
it? :-) I already did so privately few times in history (even before 
blog existed), and mostly Carl reacted to it positively. Carl is 
well respected in the community, and his summary emails to ml always 
helped others to keep morale higher ....

Other proof is, that I was contacted by two persons in the past, 
who accused REBOL community of elitarism. The thing was, that once 
they asked something, I always had some background info. They did 
not, they felt excluded from being informed. So - current blogs helped 
a lot, but my opinion is, that we should never forget those, who 
are not part of "darknet" (popular term last weeks here :-)

Besides that - if I will be voted user.r evangelist, and RT plus 
partners will tell us, they respect that organisation, it will be 
me, who will ask Carl or other persons for communication. I asked 
here, because currently most communication channels to Carl are closed 
recently. And I will accept that position only if I can be sure, 
that there is always open mindness in regards to communication on 
both sides ...

I'm not debating or discussing the points you are making, I'm simply 
tired of offering some info, and then having snide comments made 
about words like "close" "soon" etc.  You guys keep waving the "democratic" 
flag…there is no democracy here…I don't have to be pummeled for offering 
information…you are way off base…

I am far from being off base, because I know what I am talking about, 
and I also understand your point. The examle with "democracy" was 
just that - example. It is quite some time when I saw some ironic 
or sarcastic comments here.

And after all - any commercial company does not need to care at all, 
what others think. That is very correct. But upon how company communicates 
other judge its ability to act.

...................But Pekr, Im not "the company", I'm just a guy, 
telling you what I know...

I know, and I think that this discussion is partly misunderstanding, 
because my initial point was just for Gabriele or others present 
on alpha world, to ask Carl, if there could be one other blog, because 
the last one is one month old.

That is not how it reads...

I asked for it here, not directly to Carl via email, as I don't want 
to disturb him. Guys who communicate with him on a daily basis has 
stronger influence right now and hence Carl could tell himself - 
hell ya, it is already one month? Well, blog, why not?

And according to blog names - there seem to be some new users interested 
in REBOL. I can read names I never saw on ml, or here ...

I think Pekr is just as curious as the rest of us and enjoys news...any 
news of Rebol3's present stage of deveoplment. I do not think he 
is off base asking for a monthly blog. Reichart, I read these many 
of these posts everyday and I rarely ever see "snide" remarks so 
I'm confused why your brasing yourself. Although, reiderating what 
we already know about the teams hardwork and that it should be "soon" 
does not add to the conversation or help Pekr's and the rest of our 
curiousities.  I normaly would not respond but Reichart's commnets 
struck a nerve with me: "I'm tired of offierng some info, and then 
having snide comments made..." If your comments are as useful as 
the one you made to start this tread, please just refrain.  Let''s 
move on...

We are all in suspense right now. Waiting is hard... especially when 
your expectations are high.  :>)

amacleod: thanks for your support. I am OK with Reichart's pov. I 
mean - I can understand him, as in the past we (or me directly) overreacted 
to some delays etc.

I hope too we will soon see some new blog, or some alpha release 
to enjoy a bit of a bug hunting, playing with new toy ... you know 
that feeling, right? :-)

Petr: <I was taught, that the most important thing in managing things 
is to talk ... - communication>

Carl: <talk is communication, and communication is considered good 
leadership.>
http://www.rebol.com/article/0001.html

Does Carl need to manage the public?

ahhh, expectation managment ...  I am a terrible example of how to 
correctly do that myself ... if you bug me it will take longer and 
I will be unpleasnt in the meanwhile. but it does give me breathing 
room

Pekr, I'm supporting your points, too. And you very clearly stated: 
"Could someone please ask Carl for the status update?"

Reichardt (if it's you, I only see "none" as the name ...) if you 
can't stand snide remarks on slipped deadlines, you're in the wrong 
world [sic] ;-)

On the other hand, people will accept nearly everything ... IF it 
is clearly communicated.

Of course, you don't have to. But a strong community is a strong 
selling point these days. But strong communitys don't come for free, 
you have to work hard to get them.

Now, there already is a small - but nevertheless strong - community 
around Rebol .... just don't kill it.

(Not talking to Reichardt specifically, but to those who could give 
some updates from time to time ... )

Reichart appears to no longer be a member of this world.....hence 
the None against all his posts.

Whether that's a bug, a deliberate choice on his part, or some other 
reason is not obvious.

But if you want to address him, this is not currently a working channel 
for that purpose.

Probably any further discussion of that belongs in the !altme group.

Thanks Sunanda.

My opinion is, that it is not me, who was off base, but it was Reichart's 
comment, which was simply inappropriate imo. But I talked to Reichart 
later privately, and he talked normally to me. It was also me, who 
reacted with explanation of my points. Well, while I used "Could 
someone please ask Carl", I used bold style, which could sound like 
I ordered RT to post a blog. I decided to use bold letters because 
sometimes the discussion here scrolls so fast, that I want it to 
be noticed by folks like Gabriele, who might connect later. btw - 
I still can see Reichart with his name here ....

ah, I can see it too now ... in user list, he is still listed as 
Reichart, his messages are listed under "none" name.

Well, historically, there is one thing which is interesting. RT's 
communication nowadays is 100% better, than it was during IOS days. 
During all that long years, I received various messages from various 
community members, supporting my point of view. I also sometimes 
asked, why that person does not state it publicly, and the answer 
often was the fear, that it is inappropriate and that such persons 
could be kind of persecuded, or that their reputation in the eyes 
of RT could be lowered. I of course remember very well my overreactions, 
and there is not excuse for such.


But - I like things being communicated. I don't like ppl passing 
by one each other, with heads down, eyes not meeting. I can criticise, 
and I can accept critique. I like the fresh air, not hiding of problems.


I am just like that - "I don't fear dragons." As for me, I even don't 
feel offended by Terry's views. I can understand both sides pov, 
and mostly what we are spending hours with here in such regard, is 
already being a wrong kind of communication. Instead of someone asking 
privately - hey, Terry, dude, what is problem in your opinion, we 
call for official user.r agendas non english man can't even properly 
follow :-) Well, whatever, I am staying ;-)

A new blog entry -- and related to R3 too :-)
http://www.rebol.net/r3blogs/0096.html

And: http://www.rebol.net/r3blogs/0095.html

I was leaving thart one as a pleasant surprise for Petr to discover 
for himself :-)

I know about it for quite some hours prior to that post :-)

OT: so Qt has resizing too :-) http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2007/08/09/qt-invaded-by-aliens-the-end-of-all-flicker/

Yup, communication is almost everything. I'm working at a small company 
right now, about 10 people, and even here most problems can be tracked 
down to mis(sing) communications. 
THat should tell you something

latest R3 alpha, which came a few hours ago has:

- built in VID
- built in HTTP
- more undocumented features
- about the same amount of documented features as last alpha
- dll file is 262 kb
- exe file is 336 kb


There are 225 bugreports in our database, of which perhaps half are 
fixed. Two reports were added today.

That's my status update for now. :-)

Thanks Henrik. It's good to know that REBOL 3.0 will remain small.

So what is the story with Alpha?  Are we getting a beta anytime soon. 
 I haven't heard the latest eta on some of these distros.