World: r3wp

Yes, it's very demotivating for new people looking in to see that 
almost everything is old and even doesn't work anymore. We have that 
problem in Syllable, too, and I'm pretty sure it has been damaging

The biggest problem is that they will walk away before contacting 
you, so you don't know you're loosing people

Well, what I'm trying to say. If Carl is not capable or willing to 
keep up the communication channels while he is deep into coding, 
then let the code speak for itself.

I think all of us have seen to many great tools going down the drain, 
too many unkept promises (talking globally not about a specific product 
/ company). That's why I thiink that it's better to release whatever 
there is, now, than to wait for christmas to release a product which 
isn't meant to be perfect, either.

Exactly

it seems that someone from Apple are volunteering to help with the 
OSX port of R3.

That would certainly help open some doors and get the product some 
notice.

Cool

except too many cooks !

I'm confused about which metaphor we're using here ...

one cook on the root might be better than 10 in the kitchen?

if you're cooking for a billion people .. one cook ain't enough

unless you have lots of kitchen hands .. ie. many kitchen hands make 
light work

also a new word to learn: "Fireside". I hope the name won't change. 
:-) I'll let you guess for a bit what it is.

R3's marketing name? Not bad

It wouldn't be bad if it were R3's marketing name. :-) It's something 
else, though.

In fact it's probably the answer to the FTP discussion we had earlier.

http://fireside.net/

if I understood it correctly, it's a tool to let users edit all mezzanines 
of R3 directly and then submit those changes to RT, where they are 
filtered through qualified people into the source tree. it's also 
chained to the documentation of the function/protocol as well as 
test scenarios.

Ah, not what I thought. Nice, though

apparently there's already a backend for it and there has been a 
small test with a prototype of it, which was proven to work very 
welll, so a full tool will be built.

Innovative stuff. Not something we can do with Syllable's C/C++ code 
base :-(

sounds like campfire

Nah, that's chat, isn't it?

yes ..

I'd prefer "broadside" :)

in going with the rebol theme

kaj: it's a toy because you can do whatever you want with it, but 
not put it in production, because you'll get no support at this point. 
well, of course, if you want to go into production with no support 
and knowing that the next release may break everything... of course 
you're free to do that, but don't complain to us then :)

Ingo: it should be said, that in R3 you can also code (in C) the 
networking etc. as all that is in the open source part. ie. you can 
add ssl:// yourself.

I've had Syllable in production for five years. I don't mind

I also want to add that we the community need to be careful not to 
push into the release or feature discussions, only Carl and the core 
developer group can know what fits the product development timeline. 
 This is hard as we all have our specific needs but at best those 
are the kinds of distractions the team doesn't need.

umm... the target is the community

if the developers don't develop for the community, whom are they 
developing for?

I'm talking about priorities, why should we tell them what goes together 
in what order.  I expect them to deliver it all at some point *smile*

because the community knows best :)

a development tool is useless without developers

it would help if the developers all wanted the same things in the 
same time frame ... but they don't ;)

It's like that millionaire quiz program on tv .. the audience usually 
gets it right

I can tell them what is important to me, but I can't tell them slice 
core off first and then work on view - only they know enough to make 
those calls.

Ashley - sure we do - we want it all now.. *smile*

not always, but usually

Now imagine that most developers use core and web servers, they will 
want http(s) before they want VID

but who's to know?  Unless they ask.

Our input is important but as a developer I know the best path to 
get to the finish of my project, not the users waiting for it.

which is why developers need managers - to correct them of such ideas 
<BG>

As both developer and manager I can say I have problems with myself 
sometimes...

the developer may know technically what is best ... but they need 
to communicate the reasons

Now Gabriele says he wants to concentrate on VID ( which was only 
going to take a few days ) because it was hard and pop was easy.

That doesn't seem a technical reason to me.

BTW, I have no interest in testing R3 .. no time. I'm playing the 
devil's advocate here.

I do not have enough information to make an informed decision on 
something like that, part of why we need more visibility but also 
why we need to pull back from "telling" RT what should be done.

we haven't even started telling RT yet