World: r3wp

Thanks for the suggestions: I think that I'll have to use  a map! 
with a dummy value as using a block! was too slow.

I'm missing hash! in R3 because with map! I cannot use integers as 
keys... I hope it will be changed.

It's hard in hash! as well, but I agree. There is some missing infrastructure 
around the map! type as well, like iteration and searching.

has the conversation moved elsewhere?

no, it is just some kind of slow-down period. Activities around R3 
should be renewed as we speak, it seems Gabriele and Cyphre will 
be back on R3 full-time soon. There is also draft of release strategy. 
It seems RT decided (upon suggestions) to divide R3 release, so we 
should see Core like R3 alpha in one month, View will come later 
(2 - 3 months)

I should have figured... December is a slow month

I gleaned some good news from Docbase: work has started on implementing 
unicode support :-)

Yes, this is Carl's main focus now.

That is great news. How far along is it?

As for unicode, first draft should be in few days, or that is how 
I understand it :-)

Pekr, thanks Pekr, that is encouraging!

Does this mean that R3 will not become available in DevBase for several 
more months?

R3 mezzanines are already in devbase

Yes, but does this mean that R3 as a running system will not be available 
in DevBase for several more months?

what do you mean by "running system"? if you mean the R3 version 
of DevBase, I don't think it will be possible until VID3 is advanced 
enough.

No, I mean the R3 product that was promised for two weeks ago

it was? :-)

Yes

where did you read that?

Carl wrote it on his blog

so he hasn't yet gotten rid of the bad habit of posting estimate 
times... don't believe them. :-)

Believe me, I have stopped believing

I'm just trying to get some information

As I think I've mentioned (a million times) I would want those estimates 
never to be published. They are wrong 99% of the time anyway.

That's what I, and we, asked here a few months ago. There are still 
promises being made

Ok, currently the latest build provides support for modules, but 
some tests need to be done on that. There are also some discussions 
on how to do proper testing. We're not good testers. Now Carl is 
working on unicode and how R3 should support it. There is also talks 
about a document which provides the real roadmap to R3, but I don't 
think it's done.

Kaj - I was successfull on pushing the idea of "core like" release.

But is the roadmap in addition to the DevBase release, or does it 
preempt it?

Last week Carl posted detailed plan, of what features are needed 
for what part of schedule. According to that document, Core like 
release should be in December (this year). I think it might be delayed 
one or two weeks, that is my estimate, as the end of the year is 
close.

But is it going to be in DevBase before that, or is it postponed 
again for several months?

what should be postponed for several months? I think DevBase is nearly 
ready/ok for initial release. It is just question of uploading the 
first release there ...

I'm still not sure what you mean by "be in DevBase". The source code 
for R3 DLL is closed and won't be put in DevBase. Only the open parts, 
the mezzanines, the port code, device code, all that is already in 
devbase.

Henrik - not all C (host related) code is in devbase. Device code 
was released by my request IIRC. But I can see no problem that once 
ready, all open-source parts will be there.

pekr, ah, yes, correct.

I wonder if DevBase could carry even binary files? E.g. rebol.dll 
and host.exe?

Parts of R3 being in DevBase is useless if there is no dev release 
to work with. Such a dev release was promised for last month, and 
then early this month. Is it still going to happen?

I think it can carry anything.

Kaj, yes, there will be an early release, according to the roadmap.

Kaj - yes, it is going to happen. In fact - I had some private chat 
with Carl, trying to explain him, that we should do something concrete. 
That is why I pushed for core-like release sooner, than full View 
release later, while initially most other users were against my proposition. 
Carl decided, that it will be that way. The plan was set, and now 
Carl is heading towards the core-like initial alpha release.

That was not said so far. Does the roadmap start with the dev release 
as promised for right about now? Will that still include View?

internal term was end of December. Dunno if it can be fulfilled. 
I expect one or two weeks ....

Kaj, I don't think View will be included until VID3 is done.

So it is postponed for several more months

yes ...

Kaj, the annoying thing is that unrealistic time tables were published. 
We could see that immediately that it was too little time to do this 
work. I don't feel there is anything being postponed. Everything 
is going according to plan... just ignore the time tables.

It could be release with first alpha, I think it was wise to not 
include it yet.

because some initial wow effect would be replaced with slight wow, 
while some important elements missing would be replaced by WTF soon 
:-)

OK, so everything is going according to plan, just that there is 
no plan

But we went over that already

Kaj, don't do that... please.