World: r3wp

so he hasn't yet gotten rid of the bad habit of posting estimate 
times... don't believe them. :-)

Believe me, I have stopped believing

I'm just trying to get some information

As I think I've mentioned (a million times) I would want those estimates 
never to be published. They are wrong 99% of the time anyway.

That's what I, and we, asked here a few months ago. There are still 
promises being made

Ok, currently the latest build provides support for modules, but 
some tests need to be done on that. There are also some discussions 
on how to do proper testing. We're not good testers. Now Carl is 
working on unicode and how R3 should support it. There is also talks 
about a document which provides the real roadmap to R3, but I don't 
think it's done.

Kaj - I was successfull on pushing the idea of "core like" release.

But is the roadmap in addition to the DevBase release, or does it 
preempt it?

Last week Carl posted detailed plan, of what features are needed 
for what part of schedule. According to that document, Core like 
release should be in December (this year). I think it might be delayed 
one or two weeks, that is my estimate, as the end of the year is 
close.

But is it going to be in DevBase before that, or is it postponed 
again for several months?

what should be postponed for several months? I think DevBase is nearly 
ready/ok for initial release. It is just question of uploading the 
first release there ...

I'm still not sure what you mean by "be in DevBase". The source code 
for R3 DLL is closed and won't be put in DevBase. Only the open parts, 
the mezzanines, the port code, device code, all that is already in 
devbase.

Henrik - not all C (host related) code is in devbase. Device code 
was released by my request IIRC. But I can see no problem that once 
ready, all open-source parts will be there.

pekr, ah, yes, correct.

I wonder if DevBase could carry even binary files? E.g. rebol.dll 
and host.exe?

Parts of R3 being in DevBase is useless if there is no dev release 
to work with. Such a dev release was promised for last month, and 
then early this month. Is it still going to happen?

I think it can carry anything.

Kaj, yes, there will be an early release, according to the roadmap.

Kaj - yes, it is going to happen. In fact - I had some private chat 
with Carl, trying to explain him, that we should do something concrete. 
That is why I pushed for core-like release sooner, than full View 
release later, while initially most other users were against my proposition. 
Carl decided, that it will be that way. The plan was set, and now 
Carl is heading towards the core-like initial alpha release.

That was not said so far. Does the roadmap start with the dev release 
as promised for right about now? Will that still include View?

internal term was end of December. Dunno if it can be fulfilled. 
I expect one or two weeks ....

Kaj, I don't think View will be included until VID3 is done.

So it is postponed for several more months

yes ...

Kaj, the annoying thing is that unrealistic time tables were published. 
We could see that immediately that it was too little time to do this 
work. I don't feel there is anything being postponed. Everything 
is going according to plan... just ignore the time tables.

It could be release with first alpha, I think it was wise to not 
include it yet.

because some initial wow effect would be replaced with slight wow, 
while some important elements missing would be replaced by WTF soon 
:-)

OK, so everything is going according to plan, just that there is 
no plan

But we went over that already

Kaj, don't do that... please.

VID3 as a base, is based upon stronger foundation than VID2, that 
is clear even now ... but it needs to be more complete. I think that 
such things as release schedule should be well planned.

Sorry, but it's not me who's doing that

WTF?

Kaj, just because you are frustrated don't try to put your frustration 
on our shoulders please.

ok, no more debate. back to work for me.

You were clearly said, that now there is rather concrete release 
plan, feature by feature, it is just not public yet.

I said the previous time that I don't blame any of you. I'm just 
trying to get a straight answer to a simple question

You were answered, weren't you?

I can provide you with plan, I think it is not secret.

Yes, I know what I wanted to know, in the end

Basically yes, View will be released in 2 - 3 months, Core in less 
than month imo.

But also watch your motives. I have the feeling, that it is our nature, 
that the closer the thing is to release, the more depressing even 
one week delay is.

You waited for 18 months already? Is one more month for Core like 
R3 so much more? And 2 - 3 months for solid View replacement?

We've gone over all that last time

So ok, my only suggestion the is to leave rebol altogether, because 
no matter what, noone can help you ...

I start to understand Henrik - work with R2, and once R3 is here, 
it is here.

new alpha released with preliminary unicode support

will we have a pre-release of view even without VID3, because i have 
some projects that use a homemade VID ?

not according to the plan. however many parts of View and graphics 
aren't ready yet either, so they will probably be ready around the 
same time.

btw, who is working on VID3 ?