World: r3wp

Parts of R3 being in DevBase is useless if there is no dev release 
to work with. Such a dev release was promised for last month, and 
then early this month. Is it still going to happen?

I think it can carry anything.

Kaj, yes, there will be an early release, according to the roadmap.

Kaj - yes, it is going to happen. In fact - I had some private chat 
with Carl, trying to explain him, that we should do something concrete. 
That is why I pushed for core-like release sooner, than full View 
release later, while initially most other users were against my proposition. 
Carl decided, that it will be that way. The plan was set, and now 
Carl is heading towards the core-like initial alpha release.

That was not said so far. Does the roadmap start with the dev release 
as promised for right about now? Will that still include View?

internal term was end of December. Dunno if it can be fulfilled. 
I expect one or two weeks ....

Kaj, I don't think View will be included until VID3 is done.

So it is postponed for several more months

yes ...

Kaj, the annoying thing is that unrealistic time tables were published. 
We could see that immediately that it was too little time to do this 
work. I don't feel there is anything being postponed. Everything 
is going according to plan... just ignore the time tables.

It could be release with first alpha, I think it was wise to not 
include it yet.

because some initial wow effect would be replaced with slight wow, 
while some important elements missing would be replaced by WTF soon 
:-)

OK, so everything is going according to plan, just that there is 
no plan

But we went over that already

Kaj, don't do that... please.

VID3 as a base, is based upon stronger foundation than VID2, that 
is clear even now ... but it needs to be more complete. I think that 
such things as release schedule should be well planned.

Sorry, but it's not me who's doing that

WTF?

Kaj, just because you are frustrated don't try to put your frustration 
on our shoulders please.

ok, no more debate. back to work for me.

You were clearly said, that now there is rather concrete release 
plan, feature by feature, it is just not public yet.

I said the previous time that I don't blame any of you. I'm just 
trying to get a straight answer to a simple question

You were answered, weren't you?

I can provide you with plan, I think it is not secret.

Yes, I know what I wanted to know, in the end

Basically yes, View will be released in 2 - 3 months, Core in less 
than month imo.

But also watch your motives. I have the feeling, that it is our nature, 
that the closer the thing is to release, the more depressing even 
one week delay is.

You waited for 18 months already? Is one more month for Core like 
R3 so much more? And 2 - 3 months for solid View replacement?

We've gone over all that last time

So ok, my only suggestion the is to leave rebol altogether, because 
no matter what, noone can help you ...

I start to understand Henrik - work with R2, and once R3 is here, 
it is here.

new alpha released with preliminary unicode support

will we have a pre-release of view even without VID3, because i have 
some projects that use a homemade VID ?

not according to the plan. however many parts of View and graphics 
aren't ready yet either, so they will probably be ready around the 
same time.

btw, who is working on VID3 ?

Gabriele mainly. Carl supervises. I'm the style developer.

As I have written to the mailing list: dear collegues, use R2 and 
do not wait for R3. It will be a gift of God when it will come. If 
we put R3 developers under pressure there is the probability that 
wrong choices will be made.

As for curiosity: which projects is the delay of R3 blocking you 
from releasing ? I have the suspect that many are complaining becaus 
their "new toy" is not there and not because they desperatly need 
it.

I am also sure that people waiting R3 with good motivations are legitimate 
of complayning but the other don't and they should be more patient 
and give the developers respect for the "free" time they give to 
the project.

Anyone is free to consider my opinion the way they want. I'll sure 
you understand my posts are written with good intentions and not 
to start a flame.

Please read one or two months back in this thread for that. I said 
a lot about it

Basically, R3 is not replacing R2 for nothing. There are many places 
where R3 can be used where R2 can't

I happen to be building two operating systems where that is the case

It may seem that I'm putting the pressure on, but this longwinded 
situation has put a lot of pressure on me to defend REBOL in these 
projects

Several people have agreed that REBOL needs a platform to be the 
language for, and this situation puts it in jeopardy of missing these 
particular boats

What kind of OS's. Are you talking about full fledget operating systems 
or some kind of embedded os

He's talking full fledged: Syllable.

Kaj, which is the best community approach between the following two:

Ask for Rebol3 in every place and force the developers to answer 
about a release date or...

Assume as FACT that Rebol 3 is in late and won't come so soon as 
expected and start a collaborative approach torwards the work of 
developers and the whole project in general ?