World: r3wp

Just seems to be a lack of participation in the R3 process ... and 
I'm wondering if it's because the changes are too great

If there were a way we could incorporate the changes into projects 
we are currently working on ... it just might make it easier

I think it's because the changes are very large, yes. It's rather 
impossible to do any real GUI work as long as VID3 is sitting in 
this current state, where we're trying to figure out how VID3 should 
work and that things might change from week to week.

What's the best way to get started?

with what part of R3?

There's just too much information there at present ...

playing with Vid3

I see Carl's current intention is to nail Vid3 down

probably get one of last year's builds and simply toy around with 
the layout dialect. current builds have VID3 left out.

yes, there are some design issues in that style creation is too complex 
and must be simplified. Carl and Gabriele are sorting that out in 
private.

we need an dummy's guide to vid3

we have one, but it's too complex :-)

well, actually I don't think it fits with the latest VID3 build

Ok, an idiot's guide then!

the dialect itself is easy enough.

it's probably a good idea to study it in order to find out how faces 
can work together and such.

I suspect we are only going to find it's limitation by starting to 
build small apps and see how it scales

it's probably mostly limited by the number of styles currently.

which build has Vid3 in it?

the public release

which is where?  I'm getting circular links

http://www.rebol.com/rebol3/=> http://www.rebol.com/article/0347.html
=> http://www.rebol.com/rebol3/

http://www.rebol.net/wiki/R3_Releases

Ok.  Thanks.

gotta go to bed. there are some more docs about VID3 in Docbase.

My take is VID3 will not stay way it is now ...

Meaning?

too complex?

Is there much point at looking at it until Carl has decided where 
it's going?

I think not ...

I was told to hold off on documentation for VID3 months ago; pre 
Unicode release even.  And I may not be the best tech writer for 
the task anyway; as I didn't really "get it" to a level required 
to write the good end-user docs REBOL deserves.  We'll see what happens 
in the upcoming days.

Perhaps we need a "rebgui" for R3 as well ... ie. a simplified gui

That's what I hinted to on the blog.

though should a simple gui scale to a complex one?

But Gabriele is a super smart REBOL coder; so I'd like to see his 
efforts rewarded. I just couldn't keep up with some of it; at least 
not quickly enough to  produce end user docs that made any sense. 
 :)

two development efforts don't make much sense though

Some of Gabriele's stuff does tend to be somewhat hard to use

Though that could just be a documentation problem

I trust Carl to come up with something nifty.   VID2 is a dialect 
layer on the View engine, and I think Carl appreciated Ashley's work. 
 Much like the inventor a new paint watching an artist make a wicked 
cool painting.


Yeah, to do a proper job of documenting Gabriele's work requires 
some practice.  I try and write the user doc for his pdf maker "in 
pdf maker", and end up just confused enough to not make it work to 
a satisfactory level.  But I'll say, his work deserves to be rewarded 
more than it is currently.

building software is a constant re-engineering process

I was just about to add;  then again (re reward) so does yours, Gregg's 
Sunanda's Ashley's Nenad's Oldes' John's Paul's Henrik's  Maarten's 
.... oh so many.  It's like the entire community is a bunch of under 
appreciated super stars   :)

And mainly due to the size of the user base.  We don't have enough 
hands to use (let alone even try) all the cool nifty stuff that is 
produced.

Even the user.r rebol of the year only has one official nomination 
so far.   :(

who is MIA at present ?

From the nom list I'd like to see?   Doc, Paul, you, Gregg, Sunanda; 
Oldes; BrianH, oh so many that deserve a great big banner of appreciation. 
 Richard; Reichart; (a ton of the Qtask staffers) etc etc etc.

Gee; Gabriele, Ladislav (I think of ten more as soon as I quit typing) 
 :)  Petr, Henrik ...  more, many more.

guys, i have no problems in taking my VID out of R3 if you feel that's 
a problem. just let us know sooner rather than later.

I have not tried your VID3

Gabriele;  ???  NOOO!   Sorry you read my cheerleading that way. 
 I was diss'in me not you.  It was my lame attempt to explain why 
some the VID3 docs aren't up to the snuff that they should be.   
As I've said before ... keep on writing the mondo complex stuff so 
the rest of don't have to.  :)

rest of US don't have to.