World: r3wp

Why would Gabriele finish it for ?

 You know, I need it for my apps too. :) But hopefully Carl's version 
 is good enough.

It really seems noone (not even Gabriele?) knows what's Carl currently 
cooking? :-) Let's hope we get some things to test soon ....

I don't think we'll be seeing anything very soon. From observation, 
in the past Carl has been active in DocBase before new releases.

He hasn't updated DocBase for over a month.


I think we can only start looking forward to a new release  after 
Carl has started to update DocBase again..

that might not be accurate measurement of Development. DevBase was 
actively update also by community. But when Carl works on something, 
and only he knows about some area of development, noone can update 
it. I assume first alpha of VID3.4 (GIDI) in August at max. I think 
that whatever system you come-up with, the basic idea can't take 
longer than few weeks. And few weeks ago I got info that Carl had 
already some parts running ...

how was Gabriele's vid 3 not jiving with Carl's vision?

Only Carl can say for sure.

Carl have true sight or double sight ?

I think he thought it was too complicated.

Yes - internally complicated, strangely layered, not easy for average 
programmer to extend/add new stuff, maybe a lack of good docs, maybe 
a mixture of everything mentioned.

Gabriele - will you finish it anyway, or will you first wait, what 
Carl comes up with first?

Carl mentioned that he liked the dialect and didn't want to change 
what it would be capable of, but that was before the announcement 
of the new networking scheme, which apparently is somehow integrated 
with VID3.4. There is for example a SEND command in the new dialect, 
so I guess he wants to make it extremely simple to build networking 
code into a GUI. I just hope he does it right. :-)

networking integrated with Vid?

Guess we'll just have to wait

yup

the R3 alpha world appears dead

It would be good for Carl to communicate more what is happening

Nature abhors a vacuum

I mentioned to him that the communication is big problem in my opinion. 
Those silent periods do really a bad damage. I can't imagine any 
bigger company taking RT seriously. You either have private life 
and ranch, or you treat your company profesionally ...

Yep ... you can be as eccentric as you wish but it doesn't help the 
cause

I'm not sure it really causes damage. The end outcome of his work 
will be the same and luring people with tidbits might just be a timewaster.I 
get the feeling he does not want to reveal more details before the 
design is more solid. It's one of those things that during the design 
process might turn 180 degrees and become something else, because 
most good ideas don't come to you until some time late in the design 
process.

that was not meant to be posted in that form...

I get the feeling that rebol users are a shrinking community

The problem is really a lack of directions, something like "I would 
really like you to work on the test scheme now".

Or, Riechart has hired them all so that they are no longer active 
in the community!

I've said before that I don't care if the community is shrinking. 
It will grow again at final release of R3.

It would be nice to have some evidence for that belief

We see much more activity every time something new happens in the 
community. I don't post in the LIST-VIEW group anymore, but does 
it mean that people stopped using it? I didn't stop.

It's never a one-way thing for programming languages. When there 
is stuff to talk about, activity always bounces back.

Petr: first wait. no need to make a duplicate, i expect Carl's to 
be good, i'm just worried about his "bob the artist" idea (that doesn't 
really work, the only way is to create a visual tool), but i may 
just be understanding this wrong.

Petr, one problem in releasing often, as I did with VID 3, is that 
you get Petr to complain everyday :)

Is that really bad??

takes away some time, unless you just ignore all comments (at that 
point, one can just not release at all...), and it is sometimes frustrating 
when the same comment you have answered many times gets made every 
day.

i don't mind too much, but Carl might not want that.

ouch!

there is less trust in Gabriele than there should be. :-)

(notice how few comments I made during that period :-))

well, it's ok if you don't trust me, but then i'd suggest writing 
your own code or giving suggestions when I ask for comments (Petr 
always escapes when I do that ;).

each person has their area of specialisation

Pekr's is to criticize

heh :) well, that's not bad actually, it's just that there are times 
when i should focus and not look at altme, but i end up not doing 
that.

I would personally have gone underground with VID3. I understand 
why Carl works the way he does. Sometimes it's a lot harder to code 
from other people's directions/criticisms than your own, if it depends 
on turning your entire code base upside down to fulfill a small requirement. 
It just takes longer to finish things.

i think this is Carl's way to focus - as henrik says, just go underground 
and get the thing done. i do agree with petr that this is not nice 
to the community though.

It's his way of staying in the zone

Gabriele - your perception of user feedback is wrong in two things 
- 1) your design was so complicated, that average programmer (me) 
was not able to understand it in all aspects, hence repeating questions, 
and Carl also mentioned he had some difficulcy in studying it 2) 
just one user (pekr) commenting - let's face the reality - it just 
shows devastated state of REBOL community. I try to name the situation 
as I can see it.

Having a critical voice is very important

Otherwise one is developing in a vacuum of feedback

It is not possible to do any serious development or planning. VID3 
was supposed to be done in 3 - 4 weeks. Then "one month" break came 
for you to work on Qtask, which, in fact, took 6 months? Cyphre is 
fixing critical View bugs for 3 months already, with no result. And 
those are the facts. Just don't understand me wrongly - that is nothing 
about your, Cyphre's or anyone's skills, or Qtask causing it - but 
those are still the facts.

So I ask - where is input from others? Volker? Ladislav? Anton? Cyphre? 
And event hose available? We are simply all pretty much busy with 
our primary jobs, and that is it.

petr, the thing is, if you don't know how to make that design simpler, 
and i obviously don't (otherwise i would have made it simpler), then 
what's the point? how does your criticism help?

Graham and Pekr, it really depends if you are designing the thing 
or criticizing it. If the coder has to obey uninformed (let's face 
reality here. :-)) design wishes and not his own, the work takes 
longer to finish.