World: r3wp

and to return to the main topic having an independant REBOL clone 
project can give us the opportunity to hum dig all those silly ideas 
we have  ^^

most of the ideas tho are outside core areas anyway and could interface 
back into R3

seems to be very much like OS design

all we are lacking in an internal messaging system for the messaging 
language's components ;)

It will be even more fun to work within the R3 framework. Did you 
know that user defined datatypes are planned to include support for 
user defined function types? You could write your own rebcode as 
a plugin.

You could retrofit R3 with another VM that would integrate with the 
existing VM.

Perhaps that sort of thing needs to be finished before even THINKING 
about view/vid/protocols..

having a rebol clone strong project can give us more skills and maybe 
lead carl to trust us more and open too alternative things like for 
example working on a new way to hook DLL  to extend rebol

we shouldnt need to hook dll :P Rebol is a messaging language - it 
should have interface handling built in :)

with servers ?

Right now Carl has an idea about REBOL that he is working through. 
The rest of us who are working on R3 are also busy, so overall we 
are letting him do it with little complaint, while we are getting 
stuff out of the way for the next push (AFAICT).

why not? if each component is a black box and only data is passed 
between the you have more flexibility.

BrianH: understood :)

but then the problem is you move the hook to a server in C code and 
most  of your work is to write the hooking server in C ...

shad: if you use pipes for data communication performance should 
remain acceptable

i'm not talking on perf i'm talking on  hum why to do C coding when 
all i want is doing Rebol coding ....

i was thinking more in terms of:

[core(blackbox)]--- graphical display request  object ---[renderer]

in python when I want to use a DLL  I write a bridge wich is more 
easy to wirte because C and python data types and hum the same  (same 
with java ...) so the bridging part is not so headach tahn writing 
a bridge in rebol

From Carl's posts on the subject (not necessarily in the blog), it 
seems that he is using the new VID design as a mental framework that 
he is hanging a bunch of core changes on. This seems like a significant 
project that Carl is uniquely suited for. I would even recommend 
that prospective cloners wait until he is through this project - 
the results are likely to be worth it :)

mental framework that means VID have synapse or that means you code 
VID the way u imagine your interface

rebol as a (windows/whatever) service would be nice - if it was stable 
enough.

Ho that remember i noticed in VID2  a surprising bug ....

when you cascade the below and across

Mental framework is a system design term. Synapses are in the implementation 
phase :)

for example : view layout [ below img img across img img return img 
img below img return and so on

buzzwords aside - it will be interesting to see what Carl comes up 
with next time he surfaces :)

ICarii - as for DLLs - maybe DLL interface will not be present in 
R3 as we know it. Well, most wrappers will not probably work out 
of the box. IIRC Carl was thinking making DLL interface just a plug-in. 
Plug-in interfaces API is done from some 80%, just not exposed yet 
...

that should renderize 1 image then the second on the lower then block 
of 4 images in sqaure  the below an image then a secon column same 
way

I was suprised to see that I don't really renderize that

that's the origin reset bug isnt it shad?

yeah somthing like that  on the very ast colum the last images are 
inserted below the first column and not on the continuation of the 
4th columb

column ...

so to solve that i used fixed position with "at"

Wait, that would be in mezzanine code, the layout function - I am 
familiar with that function. Send me some test code that demonstrates 
the bug and we should be able to fix it.

The fix would make it into the next R2 release.

BrianH, notify Anton as well. I know he published some heavy patches 
to layout in DevBase.

Brian: sure, user defined types are interesting features, but do 
you seriously think that such low-level feature would be implemented 
(and finished) before 2010 if high-level features like VID take precedence 
? What would be the next priority, View's Desktop ? Looking at how 
R3 has evolved since the first alpha in june 2007, I see that only 
very few core vital features have been finished, like ports, and 
the rest of the time has been spent on less important things like 
unicode support (which is a *very* valuable addition, but not vital, 
because anyone can implement it at mezz level if required). Features 
that nobody, except Carl, can add to the language (because it's closed) 
like modules, threading, rebcode, user-types,... are still pending.

that how i told it  you just mix below and accross blocks

We should check to see if the bug still exists with Anton's current 
patches.

Doc: I agree totally.

BrianH here is the working sample that show the bug

view layout [ below btn "1" btn "2" across btn "3" btn "4" return 
btn "5" btn "6" below btn "7" btn "8" return b

tn "9" btn "10" across btn "11" btn "12" return btn "13" btn "14" 
below btn "15" btn "16" ]

that what i love with rebol  an sample is while discusing to pop 
out a bug is so easy to do  ^^

Doc, a lot of the module code is there already, mostly mezzanine 
and a few core changes that have already been done. Rebcode we can 
add ourselves after UDTs are there. Unicode was a lot more important 
than you think, because it required language design changes and had 
deep implications - it had to be done first. I agree that there are 
definitely some low-level things that I would like Carl to focus 
on next, like threading and the changes to the object! semantics 
(this affects modules and nearly everything else). Only then can 
the plugin interface be done, and with plugins come UDTs.

see you have buton 11 below the btn 8 instead of having it below 
the btn 10

expected position should be below the 10 and beside the 4

Got it, the return after the 8 is returning to the point set by the 
first below before the 1.

hum well if it was only a little hum spacing problem I wouldn't  
point at it but why the first column is rendering OK and the column 
with exactly same instructions is not

and where the bug arrive to the top of the mountain is when you add 
a 3rd colum you have the 2 first column rendered OK  and the bug 
show on the 3rd column ...

view layout [ below btn "1" btn "2" across btn "3" btn "4" return 
btn "5" btn "6" below btn "7" btn "8" return b

tn "9" btn "10" across btn "11" btn "12" return btn "13" btn "14" 
below btn "15" btn "16" return btn "17" btn "18"

across btn "19" btn "20" return btn "21" btn "22" below btn "23" 
btn "22" ]